to be worried there is no thread about what is being done that will affect our children's futures?

[granted]

I have become increasingly concerned both at the measures being taken by this govt (and the last too, though obviously nothing we can do about those now) that will impact on the next generation.

Articles like this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1328228/Revealed-30-year-graduate-debt-trap.html

on top of high house prices, increasing unemployment, climate change - we spend so long on this site debating the tiny things, like bedtimes, number of baths, bla bla bla - just surprised that I haven't come across other threads discussing this.

Do other mums feel like this, and if so, what can we do? Am thinking about situations where women campaigning together have made huge changes eg I think in Norther Ireland women were drivers for the peace process etc.

I feel strongly that a load of super-rich and entirely male politicians have no concept of what effect the raft of policies they are implenting will have on ordinary families and ordinary children - who after all, have no vote to make their views heard - and the current lot will probably have retired by the time they're old enough to make their views known.

Anyone else?

Totally agree with LoveRedShoes regarding entitlement. And for those assuming she's just talking about the poor, it's no about the poor, it's EVERYBODY. I think entitlement is prevelant throughout our society - from the people with huge store card/credit card debt run up buying crap "because they're worth it" to people who think that benefits is a lifestyle choice (note - not everyone on benefits) to the X Factor rejects who wail "But it's my dreeeeeam, it's all I ever wanted" without actually putting in any work and learning to sing to the intelligent, middle class girls who want to be footballer's wives as a career option to a thousand other types, our society is riddled with the belief that actually, you DO get something for nothing.

Even the financial crash was caused by it - not just the bankers who thought you could conjure money out of thin air, but the people who took out all the subprime loans in the first place without any ability or in some cases intention to pay it back. Did they think "I can't afford a $200,000 house on my minimum wage job?" No. They thought "Ooooh free money, I'm sure it will all work out". Same with people who have taken out 125% mortgages at 5 times their salary. It's easy to blame the bankers, and they bear the responsibility of offering easy credit to those with no ability to pay it back, but the people who took those loans and those credit cards are to blame as well because they blieved that no, actually they were entitled to just have all these lovely things that previously you had to work to save up for. The media play their part too, with magazines like Grazia suggesting that a 6,000 pound watch is an "investment piece" rather than an overpriced time piece which will be out of fashion next year. The language is insiduous and it is everywhere.

So it is a massive sea change to start to say to people "If you just want it, you pay for it. Generally upfront. If you need it to survive, then you will get help." But I think it is long overdue.

lucky1979 - could you bother to read previous posts and then save your lengthy, well-written and obviously deeply-felt rant for the correct thread???

This thread is NOT about entitlement to benefits.

It is also NOT about employment opportunities for Riven's son.

Thanks.

granted threads take on a life of their own. People usually get back to the point in the end.

Thanks QS :) That makes more sense.

Sorry OP I wasn't saying you were a regular, was just asking whether you have seen all the threads that touched on these issues. Your comment "we spend so long on this site debating the tiny things, like bedtimes, number of baths, bla bla bla - just surprised that I haven't come across other threads discussing this." makes you sound like a regular.
I see that you want everything gathered on one thread though.

granted - see, the problem is that, although you started the thread, it's not actually YOUR thread to control and we can post what we like. Suggest you start granted.com/Talk if you would like to be grand high poobah of a message board. :)

Plus my rant IS relevant to your original question of "Do other mums feel like this, and if so, what can we do?" As it is a response saying that no, I am a mum and I DON'T feel like this, I hope that the government measures that you referenced in your first post will actually turn out to be beneficial to society as a whole if they combat the culture of entitlement which is prevelant.

Difficult to know where to even start on this subject!
The FE situation depresses me. I was fotunate to gain an Oxbridge education despite being a state school student, yes I had a student loan but compared to what kids will owe going forward it wasn't a terrifying amount of debt (about 12k i think). The more worrying aspect is that not every student will have the right to borrow the full amount to cover their tuition fees. Currently the system is means tested. So actually it likely it will be those who earn just above thresholds who will feel worst hit, as they will somehow be expected to pay the shortfall between loan and cost of university life. Not easy, regardless of earnings, as very often families have mortages, more than one child, and other financial responsibilities.

It worries me to think how many bright students will opt to not attend university purely for financial reasons.

Working through uni will help some people, but my uni banned it, and i know many others do as it provides a distraction to study!

As for the other issues: climate change...well i think it is a f*cking disgrace how poor we are as a nation at recycling. Look around us in Europe, we are amongst the worst countries for volumes of recycled waste. HOW?! We are more than wealthy enough to manage this properly.

I dont worry about house prices in 2010 when my baby is not even born...these things, just as economic performance are cyclical and who knows where we will be in 21 yrs time.

I disagree that the politicians and economists do not understand what is happening. Sadly I think they understand it all too well, which is why such widespread cuts are being made. From Joe and Jenny Bloggs running up massive credit card bills, taking out 110% mortgages, to banks running positions they could not feasibly cover...we as a society have needed bailing out at every level, and this is our fate for now.

Agree with LoveRedShoes and Lucky; the sense of entitlement is the UK is unbelievable, I have never seen the same anywhere else in the world.

Aside from the point that the creator of the thread dont get to decide what direction the thread is taking, and what topics are being discussed, why should one NOT discuss entitlement if that is seen to be one of the issues related to the problems listed in the OP?

Granted, do please stop bossing everyone around, this is not a moderated site where you get a bollocking if you go off topic.

tea anyone ? Just made a nice pot

Thanks, I'd love a cup. And a biscuit.

Sorry, not trying to boss everyone about, point taken lucky, that to you everything is just tickety boo and the Tories have solved all the problems I'm concerned about with their frankly supper economic plans - and I really, really hope you're right, believe me. Nothing I'd like more.

However, sadly, I don't think that all. I do agree that the 'entitlement' problem is one of those we face in this country and it does need to be addressed; andI broadly approve of the policies in terms of ensuring that all those who can work are incentovised to do so, so work becomes normalised again for everyone.

BUT I don't think that's the whole solution - far from it.

Please tell me how making students rack up huge debts is going to help climate change? How this going to help them afford a house? Or even rent?

Or does your objection to 'entitlement' extend so far that you believe no-one but the rich should be entitled to basic life essentials such as a roof over their heads?
Do you believe that to avoid that they should forgo university ie saying university should only be for the rich?

And what about the economy? Have you read the links to the Telegraph articles I posted? How do you feel about the effects of the Bernanke 'put' on other world economies, incl our own? How about the article - one of many I could have picked - suggesting that we're just getting started on the second wave of the credit crunch?

And what to do about it?

Gloating about entitlement might well make you feel better, but it's not really much of a solution, is it?

[passes granted a cuppa and a biscuit]

Lucky, I agree with you so wholeheartedly.

The entitlement attitude cuts through all swathes of society/class/income
The only ones who seem to be a bit immune to it are the over-70s(ish) who try as they might, don't seem to comprehend the attitudes towards spending and credit and expectation. Perhaps we are all just too swept up by the media who have drip-fed us the notion that spending £££ on everything (from companies who happen to advertise with them) is just the way we live now.

who said student debt was to help climate change?! it is for tuition fees...

finally it wont impact their rental prospects as repayment of student loan happens once you earn over a certain amount and is pre-tax. So your net salary is what you should budget on for rent.

I've got a whole box of bicuits for anyone who thinks the USA model works and should be followed. I don't know anyone back home who could afford to go to university more than part time and didn't have to work a full time job.. Most of my friend are pushing 30 and not anywhere near graduating. Not everyone is even entitiled to student loans. I wasn't, my dad made to much money. We didn't speak and he woudln't have dropped a dime on my education but that didn't help me when I was desperate for funds to go.

BTW my biscuits are friendly ones that go with tea not up your bum biscuits.

Theevildead that sounds horrible, did you go in the end ?

Gloating? Interesting turn of phrase. Want to expand on how I was gloating?

Students racking up huge debts is not going to effect climate change. Again, please point out where I made that rather ridiculous comparison?

I do think that students should pay for their own education, and that this is a fairer way of doing it than via a graduate tax. I think it will stop people going to university to do subjects which won't lead to well paid jobs, and I'm pretty OK with that. I hope it will mean that average office jobs which don't need a degree to do will stop requiring one, hence opening them up to a wider range of people who do have the requisite skills. Your not entitled to three years of having a laugh, you're meant to be learning. If you're not learing anything useful to help you in the world of work, why is the government paying?

Age of austerity? Well, that ties in quite nicely with what I was saying about entitlement, a bit of austerity wouldn't do people any harm. Neither of your links work, so I can't really comment on that.

"Or does your objection to 'entitlement' extend so far that you believe no-one but the rich should be entitled to basic life essentials such as a roof over their heads?"

Of course it doesn't, hence my distinction in the last paragraph between want and need. The government has a responsibility to help the most vulnerale members of society. That doen't abdicate everyone else to the responsibility to contrbute as much as they are able, not just complain on about how they are entitled to whatever they want.

lucky1979 - enjoyed your posts v much.

How about putting books such as 'Affluenza' and the like on the school syllabus? How about starting young, teaching children to appreciate the value of money in schools, and point out the pitfalls of a disposable society.
I am very guilty of having grown up with next to nothing, buying far too much for my DCs, because I hated being told as a child that I couldn't have the same nice clothes/ toys that my friends had. I have reigned myself in over the last few years, as I could see I was not setting a good example to them.
Less consumed = less production and hopefully, less depletion of resources.
I like the return to austerity (within reason - not depravation) in that more people may become more self sufficient, buy local and not fall prey to advertisers.

Oh yes, and I would ban all angry sweary rap music, and music videos glamorizing violence, gangster culture and bling. The zlebrity culture drives me insane.

your = you're. Ooops :)

Lucky1979 agree wholeheartedly with your view on degrees. A friend of mine is a child minder and she is being pushed into a childcare DEGREE despite having years of good experience, NNEB, NVQs etc... And the best thing of all is that at the time, it would have been part funded.
She didn't want to do it either.

Granted re "Do you believe that to avoid that they should forgo university ie saying university should only be for the rich?"

I must be reading a totally different government proposal to you, because all the ones I see say those from poor backgrounds will be given lots of help and not have to pay all the fees, while those from richer backgrounds will have to pay up to £9k

And these aren't fees paid upfront - these are paid like tax and NI when they start working.
So if you think there are going to be lots of students up and down the land clutching offer letters from Oxbridge, while their parents look on saying 'but you can't go - we can't pay the fees'
The argument trotted out in the past was 'those from poorer backgrounds are more put off by debt, so would avoid doing anything to get themselves into debt' which is frankly deeply patronising and assumes anyone from a poor background can't work out that a degree might mean better long term prospects.