to think there should be an MN presence at Reclaim the Night?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

On 27th November the annual Reclaim the Night march takes place in London. AIBU to think it'd be great to have a bunch of MNers (possibly with banner) walking together?

Details here

"A recent survey by the young women?s magazine More in 2005 found that 95% of women don?t feel safe on the streets at night, and 65% don?t even feel safe during the day. 73% worry about being raped and almost half say they sometimes don?t want to go out because they fear for their own safety.

In every sphere of life we negotiate the threat or reality of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment. We cannot claim equal citizenship while this threat restricts our lives as it does. We demand the right to use public space without fear. We demand this right as a civil liberty, we demand this as a human right.

The Reclaim The Night march gives women a voice and a chance to reclaim the streets at night on a safe and empowering event. We aim to put the issue of our safety on the agenda for this night and every day."

AIBU?

I can't make the March (hundreds of miles away), but I'll also pledge my support for MN presence.

London profeminist mens group...how many men do you think that will truly attract?! Why must it be pro-feminist, why cannot it just be a march against everyone's fear?! This still makes it a march for women and about women.

coraltoes, you are interested to know ''how many marchers actually proactively engage with the key groups in their community to better their surroundings and safety. Marching is the easy option i'm afraid.''

• I will tell you, I am for a start. The organisation I work for (which gets no funding) has nagged and begged and foraged for funds from the community in order to provide rape crisis facilities and counselling in my area. There are currently none.

We work closely with Safer Neighbourhood Partnerships, Crime reduction Unit, Police, IDAS (formerly Women's Aid), youth workers, drugs and alcohol agencies, church workers, members of the community... How much more proactively engaged would you like me to be?

Lol at London pro-feminist men's group

What phone box do they meet in?

As I've said, I'd totally support anyone who started a march like that and would go on it. Let me know if you organise or hear of one, won't you?

This is a march for women and about women. Think I've been perfectly clear about that, in fact yesterday morning I posted: "But this particular march is organised by women, for women" :o Men are welcome to show their support, and my DP will be at the men's demo, because (shock, horror!) he actually hates the fact that women aren't safe on the streets, and that attackers are rarely brought to justice.

DP - they organised the creche at the Feminism in London conference.
Yay for London Profeminist Men! Both of them!

No i don't think that elephants, of course i don't, i just think that most women are not sufficiently interested in a mass demonstration on this subject because they know it to be a waste of time, ie it will change nothing.

well that's your opinion and of course I'm not going to tell you you're wrong.

But IMO mass demonstrations can change things, and also give people a chance to feel the support of others and refresh them to carry on with the drudge work of changing things a bit at a time. Also a chance for women who are active in this area to meet and connect and share ideas, of course, at the rally.

Has there ever been a march that could be directly linked to a significant change in law/behaviour do you know? (genuine question btw)

I don't know lemon. No expert really. I do know that going to things like RTN has increased my sense of determination to help change things, and led to me writing letters to MPs, govt ministers etc, which might have helped change things. When the govt tried to introduce the rape anonymity law for instance, it was women from RTN as well as loads of others who lobbied against it and it was eventually dropped.

I don't think you're ever going to get evidence proving a march by itself brought about change, because I can't think of a situation where a group would just march - they will always be doing other campaigning as well.

There were certainly a number of big Suffragette marches which helped draw attention to the cause, for instance, but as you know the Suffragettes got up to lots of other stuff too.

I think the anti-poll tax demos in the 80s were significant but there was rioting involved in that too.

And there have been enormous marches which had a lot of coverage but did not achieve their objectives - the Countryside March didn't stop the foxhunting ban, the anti- Iraq War marches were ignored. However they do serve as evidence about the existence of the campaigning group - people don't just say 'Look how many people opposed the war', they say 'Look at the anti war demos.' Even though the number of people who marched is only a small fraction of people who shared that view, so in a sense it is not good evidence of the size of a movement.

Hi All

just some info I've found for people unable to attend the march in London on the 27th.

There is an event in Manchester on the 21st Nov (facebook page here)

In Portsmouth on the 25th Nov: (facebook page here)

In Aberdeen on the 27th Nov

and in Leeds on the 4th Dec.

Information on the marches can be found on the official RTN website

I don't want more street lights. We have more than enough of it. I'd rather see more stars.
I agree that far more young men get attacked at night than women and don't see what this march is asking for apart from more street lights which I don't want.

Where exactly did you get the idea that all we are campaigning for is more street lights??!!

Why don't you go to the website and read about the real reason why these women are marching?

Where did you read that about it being to campaign for streelighting 2rebecca?

I honestly can't get my head around all the hostility towards this.

All I know is that I've been raped. I've been harrassed, flashed and masturbated over in public. If there is anything I can do to make a difference (however apparently "unsignificant") and hopefully stop that happening to anyone else, then I will. And I don't see what is wrong with that.

*insignificant

I'm confused-where did street lights come from? I'm not marching for street lights.

I'm marching to reinforce the message that it's not ok to tell women that if they don't want to be raped they shouldn't go out at night.
I'm marching to protest against the "blame the victim" culture.
I'm marching in solidarity with other women who don't want to be treated like objects to be pawed and leered at.

At the moment I'm not involved in anything on a local level and I'm hoping that I'll have the opportunity at the march to talk to people and get some ideas of how I can actually DO more - the east midlands appear to be a feminist wasteland!!

Coraltoes and umyeah both said they were campaigning for better street lighting, and better usually means more, sadly.

I think you've missed the point 2rebecca! Coraltoes was listing things we should (in her opinion) be campaigning for instead of marching and umyeah was quoting her.

Reclaim the night is not about more streetlighting.

Another one who can't go but would like to add support!

There's always going to be folk who do this sort of thing down or are downright hostile E&M, just ignore. Not worth engaging with - carry on with the good work.

Thanks Janos :) Sorry you can't be there.

E&M; remember where you started this thread - 'AIBU'.

You must have expected a mixed response ?
If you wanted everyone to agree with you you should have stayed within the 'feminist' section. You wouldn't have had me for a start - I've hidden it.

You've had replies explaining why some women feel this march ( and marches like it ) are a total waste of time. If you can't handle that, then maybe you need to work on your communication/listening/understanding skills, because all you're doing is dismissing people who have taken the time to respond to you.

( I think at one point you were banging your head off the wall )

Good idea.

Wish they'd do them in other cities. Not an easy thing for me to get to London.