to think there should be an MN presence at Reclaim the Night?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

On 27th November the annual Reclaim the Night march takes place in London. AIBU to think it'd be great to have a bunch of MNers (possibly with banner) walking together?

Details here

"A recent survey by the young women?s magazine More in 2005 found that 95% of women don?t feel safe on the streets at night, and 65% don?t even feel safe during the day. 73% worry about being raped and almost half say they sometimes don?t want to go out because they fear for their own safety.

In every sphere of life we negotiate the threat or reality of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment. We cannot claim equal citizenship while this threat restricts our lives as it does. We demand the right to use public space without fear. We demand this right as a civil liberty, we demand this as a human right.

The Reclaim The Night march gives women a voice and a chance to reclaim the streets at night on a safe and empowering event. We aim to put the issue of our safety on the agenda for this night and every day."

AIBU?

I'm only shy because I don't know anyone.

And because my biceps have wasted away now that I sit in an office all day

I AbsolutelyHaveToBeWorking now.

Back later.

E&M

So females don't attack other females?

What do you think would happen if the world was all female ?

I didn't say that did I. I said this march is about the specific issue of male violence against women.

As for an all female world - have never really thought about it, nothing would be the same. So excuse me for being an unimaginative so and so, but can we cross that bridge when we come to it?

Surely the fact that men can be attacked, or that women can be attackers, is not a good reason to not protest against violence against women? They are all wrong.

DP can you tell me what the 1950s is like for women before you get back in your time machine and return there.

If men want to organise a march against violence to them then they can do so. This march is concentrating on violence against women.

E&M I'd love to come but I can't afford to. Good luck with it anyway :)

I'm not supporting a group of woman who basically want the right to walk home from a club at 3.00am drunk and half naked...

How do you think women walking home half-naked at 3am should be treated? Or punished perhaps?

Do you think that's all it's about DP? Do you think those are the only circumstances in which women ever get attacked on the streets?

women should be able to walk the streets safely no matter what they are wearing and no matter what their state of sobriety.

look, in an ideal world we'd all be able to walk around at 3.00am half naked wouldn't we - but the world is far from idea. It's full of drug addicts and alcoholics, and people with mental illness, and people who are violent for the sake of being violent. I'm honestly not trying to belittle your march, if you feel it will help women then fine - go ahead ( how will it help women btw ?)
Y'know we were in New York recently and asked a cab driver to take us to central park. He told us not to go to a certain part of the park as he couldn't guarantee we wouldn't get shot. This was 11.00 am on a Sunday morning. That's life. And I think you're being extremely naive.

If a woman wants to walk home completely naked she should be able to do so without being attacked.

I agree that the world is a dangerous place, but doesn't mean it is wrong to "want the right" to be safe. That's what we all want surely? And this march is saying we want the right to be safe, and we all deserve it.

How will it help women? Well my thinking is that if thousands and thousands of women took to the streets, demanding better treatment of rape victims, less tolerance of convicted rapists and attackers in public life (we don't have Gary Glitter on TV, so why Mike Tyson or N-Dubz?), and a shift in views so that those who attack women are held properly responsible for their crimes, it is a hugely powerful message.

Gary Glitter abused children....Mike Tyson didn't.

Plus there are plenty of people who think some women accuse men of rape when it was nothing of the sort - men get the benefit of the doubt - even if convicted.

The reason that I have misgivings about RTN is because, to my mind, it perpetuates the myth that rape and sexual assault are things that happen at night in dark alleys, and the perpetrators are typically strangers. I find that frustrating and to be honest I think it may be more of a hindrance than a help in the fight against sexual violence because it further cememnts that image of rape in people's minds, which makes it less likely that they can/will accept that in fact most sexual violence is prepetrated by people known to the victim.

That's right, daftpunk, that's what happens a lot. And I think it's wrong. And me just sitting here thinking it isn't helping much. But if thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of women stand up and say they've had enough of victim-blaming, rapists like Mike Tyson being giving money, acclaim and adulation where no-one would dream of treating a paedophile like that - then it might make a difference.

And in their own homes

Sorry, my last post was in reply to FC123

mmm fairycake I know what you mean. But I think 25% of reported rapes are stranger rapes on the streets, which is still thousands and thousands of women. Plus there is a huge swathe of sexual assault and related behaviours from flashing to groping to harrassment to attempted rapes which don't come into those figures but happen a hell of a lot outside.

The origin of the marches IIRC was that when Peter Sutcliffe was killing women in the 1970s, the police did not really bother to investigate the deaths of the prostitutes he killed, only giving it attention when he picked on non-WG. And then when they acknowledged a serial killer was at work, they put the women under curfew, advising them to stay in after dark (which is any time from about 3.30pm in Yorkshire depending on time of year). Some women pointed out that it would be more appropriate to put men under curfew, considering it was a man committing the crimes.

Sorry meant to put: so I think there is validity to a march that looks at the dangers that women face outside their houses. I know women in RL and on here who have been raped by strangers and I doubt I know anyone who hasn't been assaulted, intimidated or harrassed sexually outside.

If that distracts from the issue of violence against women inside the home and from people known to them, I think the answer is not to avoid RTN but to think about how we could do something to protest about the treatment of those crimes as well.

For me, I walk in RTN thinking of all the women who have suffered violence from men regardless of the circumstances.

Yes E&M it's all very complicated, you see unfortunately we don't all play by the rules. There are women who falsely accuse men of rape ( for whatever reason - revenge usually) and the courts and police know that. If you think about it - how can rape every be proved? It's my word against his isn't it.
(Attacks/rapes in the street only account for a small % and can be proved via CCTV etc)

I'm sure you've been around MN long enough to have heard that false accusations of rape are no more common than false accusations of any other crime, and a hell of a lot less common than insurance scam false accusations of theft etc.

I don't call 25% a small percentage (although could well be smaller than that once the majority of rapes that are unreported are taken into account), and there isn't CCTV everywhere. There was a woman posting on here not long ago about her young daughter who was raped in the street and the man lied that she had approached him and demanded sex - he was let off. It's not just down to proof as you acknowledged earlier. Even when people have been convicted there is a reluctance to believe the victim, and an urge to sweep the man's crimes under the carpet. Roman Polanski is a good example.

Yep, and N-dubz were on Cbbc a few weeks ago.
( they're all so thick it's painful )

I don't know what the answer is - all I know is some women love 'bad boys' ( N-dubz have 1000's of female fans ) how you go about changing that god only knows.

I know, but some people probably love Gary Glitter or other people guilty of paedophilia. But society has decided for the most part that people who commit those crimes are beyond the pale. Whereas N-Dubz man (can't remember his name) who sexually assaulted a student in a club is apparently perfect fodder for kids' TV.

I don't know what the answer is either, but there is a widespread acceptance that either women are lying about rape, or the man didn't mean it really, or some other excuse. It's not true and women and girls aren't going to get justice until attitudes change. RTN is part of that I hope.

Good luck with it E&M - it's been a pleasure talking to you..