to think creationism has no part in education in 2010?

[SantasMooningArse]

OK so I know I will be shot down under the 'don;t send your kids to a faith school' rule but to clarify:

A) I am a Christian; just of the friends variant rather than mainstream. I have a religion degree, I am far from anti- faith, just anti extreme.

B) It's the only scholl in walking distance and when we moved here we didn;t have a car I could use; it was also the only school with a space as we moved mid year. It i 3 minutes away.

C) I would dearly love my others to go to a different school but can't co-ordinate the pick ups due to being aprt dependent on SN transport for another child.

D) It's technically not a Church school but a VA one.

Anyway just received Governor's report which comes with a report each year from the local Diocese which is linked to their funding from a will. The report states (quote) '
The 6/7 creation myth seemed to rear it's head agin and I do wonder whether teaching as fact something we know to ne myth is the right thing?'

Later on under things to consider it says 'Crreation?'

I have no issues with it being taught as part of a wider 'some Christians believe...' thing but when ds2 was an infant his teacher told hom Mummy and Daddy were wrong about evolution; I had thought it was one long retired extreme though not general schooling.

I would much prefer ds4 to attendf the under subscribed school a few miles away (DS£ attends the attached SNU so know it well) but can't work out transport. I do find creationism a step too far though.

"No, I don't have any scientific qualifications"

Well fuck me sideways. Never would have guessed.

I imagine its pointless to continue.

Maryz - I agree. Christians (of all sorts) often are guilty of souble standards. Which leads me to believe that evolutionists have to have as much faith (if not more, but that's just my opinion) to believe their chosen theory as I do!

You can call me what you like provided it's not an insult.

LTW - you've not told me your qualifications.

To use 'proof' and 'evidence' interchangeably suggests to me that you shouldn't really be deploying them in an argument about Science.

I realise that sounds harsh, but I think Boff's dual perspective suggestion is the best one on these religion v science threads. I have a religious faith, and I am a Science teacher. When I am a scientist, I do Science. I do not try to look at one from the perspective of the other.

Or rather, I've looked at my religious faith with my science hat on often. Just can't manage to lose my faith though. Irrational.

''I just think that chikdren should have acess to both views and then decide for themselves what they believe''

This is not telling them 'both views' teaching a child about creationism is called indoctrination. You cant even begin to compare some shite written in an old book to things which have a scientific basis of knowledge.

I do have Science qualifications (obviously!) if you're bothered about that.

I believe in creation. I believe the Lord did it all in just a few days when it was raining (which he created by mistake) and he couldn't go out.

By definition, anyone who believes the world is only 4,000 years old isn't really interested in proof, logic or scientific evidence. Which is fine, as long as they stick to 'I believe the world is 4,000 years old...' rather than pretending they have any evidence for this or somehow one can ignore the vast amount of actual hard evidence that says different.

It's ridiculous anyway as the Bible says you need faith, not proof. So why are they so determined to pretend there is scientific evidence for their ideas?

Those amongst their number who want to peddle lies to children should be barred from having anything to do with schools.

you are just prejudiced against the Word and the Truth

I work with a creationist Physics teacher, so having a science qualification is no bar to this belief of course. He teaches the Science spec. No more, no less. We keep the arguments discussions to the staff room.

Isn't Creationist Physics an oxymoron?

YANBU. I have no problem with creationism being discussed in RE lessons as one of several non-evidence based views held by some religious groups. I have a big problem with it being taught as an alternative theory to evolution in science lessons.

I no more believe that the entire cosmos was created by the will of a divine being than I believe that thunder is made by the hammer of Thor, or that Ganesh broke off his tusk and threw it at the laughing moon. They are just STORIES and should be taught as such.

?I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?

Stephen Roberts

You've been listening in the staffroom hully...

love that quote nannynonobs..it is so well just so bloody spot on!

Proof #28 - Notice how many gods you reject
There are literally thousands of religions being practiced today. Here are 20 of the most popular, along with an estimate of the number of followers:

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand
[Source: Encyclopedia Britannica]
If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in.

In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject God. You think their gods are imaginary, and they think your God is imaginary.

In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods as imaginary, many of which he/she has never even heard of, and arbitrarily chooses to "believe" in one of them.

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
A rational person rejects all human gods equally, because all of them are equally imaginary. How do we know that they are imaginary? Simply imagine that one of them is real. If one of these thousands of gods were actually real, then his followers would be experiencing real, undeniable benefits. These benefits would be obvious to everyone. The followers of a true god would pray, and their prayers would be answered. The followers of a true god would therefore live longer, have fewer diseases, have lots more money, etc. There would be thousands of statistical markers surrounding the followers of a true god.

Everyone would notice all of these benefits, and they would gravitate toward this true god. And thus, over the course of several centuries, everyone would be aligned on the one true god. All the other false gods would have fallen by the wayside long ago, and there would be only one religion under the one true god.

When we look at our world today, we see nothing like that. There are two billion Christians AND there are more than one billion Muslims, and their religions are mutually exclusive. There are thousands of other religions. When you analyse any of them, they all show a remarkable similarity -- there is zero evidence that any of these gods exist. That is how we know that they are all imaginary

Wow..so many loons.

mumeee:

Many Christians look at our universe, and especially life on planet Earth, and come to the conclusion that what we see is "irreducible complexity." In the Christian view, the complexity of our universe and life on earth requires an intelligent creator to bring everything into existence. A Christian might say:

"Look at how amazing and complex life is. Look at how intricate the human eye is, and the human brain. There is no way that the human eye and the human brain arose spontaneously from the mud. In the same way that a watch cannot appear without a watchmaker, there is no way that all this complexity arose without an intelligent creator."
So, we have a question that demands an answer:
Did the complexity of life arise spontaneously, or did it require a creator?
Christians believe that a creator is essential. Scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology, and that the complexity arose through natural processes like evolution. Who is right?

You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:

The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.
An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.
The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required.
The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.

It's not great logic though, is it? Based as it is on rather a lot of assumptions.

Hullygully, this "There have been many mutations. When the spaceship first brought us here we could hardly breathe, and now we can dance." is my favourite post, ever.

for anyone who is interested to look at their faith objectively this site is a nice easy way to do this...It can be hard to reject a delusion you have been indoctrinated with for so long, especially as it is a crutch, I should know I was sent to convent school! But once you do you realise what a silly make believe world you were living in and you are finally free!

godisimaginary.com/i4.htm

There is really little more irritating than being asked to "think about Science". I've been doing that (professionally) for a couple of decades. Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone who has a religious faith has failed to examine it objectively.