to think my family are insensitive

[labtest]

I have an almost 4 year old daughter and in July 2005 lost my first daughter, Laura, at almost 42 weeks pregnant. I also suffered a missed miscarriage, picked up at 10 weeks, the month prior to conceiving my living child. Now my sister in law is 9 weeks pregnant and convinced she is carrying a girl. I do find it hard to be around pregnant women even now but hide it well and always take an interest, though it's painful for me. However, my sil keeps commenting about how disappointed she is that she is having a girl cos she really wants a boy (this is her first child). She said it again the other day in front of my parents and brother who I thought may have gently reminded her that maybe it was not a very sensitive thing to say in front of me, but no, they smiled indulgently. I am livid. I wanted to say something but it would have been said in anger and then, knowing my family, they would have accused me of trying to spoil her pregnancy with my negativity (or similar bollocks). I am angery on two levels, a: that my daughters are being disrespected, and b: that she has the temerity to complain about not getting the gender she wants to me who has lost 2 babies. Oh and I may as well add c: no fucker in my family stuck up for me of my kids.

emptyshell I am so sorry. I feel exactly ths same.

Interesting to hear other's thoughts on counselling. I've not experienced anything like the tragedies emptyshell, labtest and others have endured but I took the loss of my last pregnancy at 9 weeks quite badly.

DP was pushing for me to go to counselling - which made me fucking furious. He just didn't get it. I was meant to be having a baby, I miscarried (even at 9 wks I found this horrendous), I was grieving. WTF did he expect? I'd experienced "straightforward bereavement" - the two experiences are different (or at least were to me - there's a difference between losing someone you've had in your life always and losing a pregnancy in the first trimester) but there are plenty of similarities.

OP, I do think someone needs to have a word with your sil. I'd be too much of a wuss to do so myself I think (unless I'd had a few G&Ts). She's being thick and insensitive rather than disrespectful to your DDs.

Suzie- I did not know her when Laura died. She came on the scene when my living daughter was a month old. We actually get along really well normally. I just want to clarify that I am not against her having a preferred gender. It's just not something I want to hear about.

I think I would be ashamed to talk about gender disappointment in front of anyone.

I had about two minutes when I found out I was having a boy that I felt a bit "oh" about it, as I had convinced myself that I was having a girl because I was craving oranges and strawberries.

It wasn't even real disappointment, just that shift in thinking when you've believed one thing and have to adapt.

I felt really bad about the feeling, as though it were disrespectful to my baby.. so I understand labtest's feeling that it is disrespectful. I also felt like I might "jinx" my pregnancy for even having thought it.

I don't know why anyone would think that saying they were disappointed to have a boy or a girl is the stuff of polite conversation, really. I think it's really awful to be chatting about it so casually. I know that may just be me but, seriously, even if the SIL didn't know of labtest's losses, it would be insensitive to be moaning on about gender disappointment as social chit-chat given that so many people experience infertility and early losses that perhaps no one knows about. It's naive and crass and I just wouldn't make an apology for it.

labtest I've sat in the office before while my boss made jokes about the hideous disease that killed my mother. He was being a fucking idiot - it clearly didn't even occur to him that someone in our large office might have lost someone that way.

I guess that's different in that he didn't know what killed her, but yeah, people can be complete insensitive fuckwits and really, really hurt others yet do so with absolutely no malice whatsoever.

I think the fact she wasn't on the scene when you lost Laura is relevant (just as it's relevant that my arse of a boss wasn't on the scene when Mum died).

SkeletonFlowers is the voice of reason here!

Dont we all say stupid things at the start of the first pregnancy when we are at maximum opinionation (is that a word?) with minimum knowledge?

It is only later as life's cruel jokes get played on us that we learn to keep those opinions to ourselves.

SuzieHomemaker - I think that was what I was trying to say about labtest's SIL. I don't necessarily think she was being wilfully malicious or insensitive [unless she has a history of being like that?] but rather was babbling on about her feelings around her pregnancy in a thoughtless way. I am sure that I have probably said thoughtless things whilst pregnant which may have upset somebody who has been through a terrible loss. For example I was initially a little disappointed at discovering at 20 weeks scan that DS was a boy as I had been convinced he was a girl and thus felt I had lost my 'fantasy baby'. I am sure I said this to a couple of people which I now appreciate could have been very hurtful to someone who in reality had lost a baby.

I don't know. You shouldn't have to have been through something to empathise/think of others. It's basic social skills

I have no experience of m/c, stillbirth or infertility but I would be extremely cautious before I said anything flippant about pregnancy in front of people I didn't know very well. I suppose I come from a culture where many people won't buy new things for a baby until they are safely in the world because of the spectre of miscarriage. Don't get me wrong, I know friends who have had very callous things said to them about the loss of their babies in Ireland too (particularly early m/c) but I have a friend here who had a full-term stillbirth and I am astounded by the lack of thought people have had for her loss, and how they never ask her how she is feeling or skirt over the topic even though it has been a very short time since her baby died.

I don't think people here talk a lot about death/loss in general, and because pregnancy and baby loss seems - as emptyshell has put it - so much more intangible, people can be very unfeeling and unthinking about it.

So Working can you guarantee that you have never said anything to anyone that may have caused hurt or disappointment?
I think we all like to think we have basic social skills [and a good sense of humour] but we probably don't to absolutely everyone's taste. For example, as you state in your post, you're very cautious about saying anything flippant but are also astounded by how people skirt over the topic of the loss of a baby. Isn't it possible that someone might interpret your cautiousness as you not wanting to know about their difficult feelings around their loss? Sometimes it can be very difficult to know how to deal with this most sensitively with every person. It doesn't necessarily mean they are lacking in social skills imo.

BootyMum, heavens yes! If I could have one superpower it wouldnt be the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound but the ability to unsay the thoughtless things I have said.

Of course I've said hurtful and insensitive things unknowingly - it's the nature of being human.

However, this isn't a minor faux pas. It's a clanger. If you come out with this sort of stuff in this context, you should want the ground to swallow you up. The fact it hasn't been even realised suggests quite limited understanding of others' feelings.

Also, you are deliberately misinterpreting. I have no cautiousness with asking how someone is doing with reference to a loss and being available to listen to the brutal truth for as long as it takes. That really has nothing to do with being cautious about being flippant about pregnancy/miscarriage/infertility/sexual abuse and other issues that might cause untold hurt. Blathering on about how disappointed you are to be having a girl or a boy in front of someone you know has had a loss is unthinking and unfeeling. If she'd realised and later said something, then there would be no issue. However, just ignoring the background and context of those you are interacting with and saying whatever the hell you feel like saying because it's a "sensitive" topic is just another get out clause. Why should you have to think of others when you might get it wrong, eh? They can just go to a counsellor if they find what you say hurtful.

I am just saying that sometimes there are different interpretations on what is actually said dependant on your own experience. And I think we all have at some time or another caused offense, sometimes completely unknowingly or sometimes we have felt the absolute horror and mortification of dropping a 'clanger' and have not known how to sensitively deal with the situation without heavy handedly treading all over the person we have offended's feelings or upsetting them further. Not saying it's right but it is human.

i dont think you are being unreasonable but maybe a bit over sensitive. She shouldnt have to walk on egg shells around you, this pregnancy is about her not you. You are responcible for your own feelings, if you are feeling hurt thats your stuff. It dousnt sound like she said it to upset you.
You cant go around gently reminding people who are having children that they should be thankful for any child because your died, thats not her fault and she shouldnt be made to feel guilty just because of what happened to you.

Sounds like your family is not insensitive, but unaware of your hyper sensitivity to the subject. You said that you still find it hard to be around pregnant women, but you hide it.
I agree with Nordic, the situation is just a reminder for you to deal with your feelings as these feelings make you unhappy, not any outside comments

nordicprincess I have never gone round reminding pregnant women that my baby died and they should be grateful for whatever they get. I find it difficult to be around pregnant women because they serve as a reminder of everything I lost over 5 years ago. Not just my baby but the joy in any future pregnancies. I am aware that my losses should not impact on other women who are entitled to enjoy their pregnancy but if I am able to consider their feelings and bite my tongue why is it wrong to expect them to consider mine?

Why do they not respect yours? Because they don't realise or remember your losses I guess

I think the only way is to have a quiet word with SIL.