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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that my perfectly compos mentis, continent..

41 replies

seeker · 08/11/2010 10:42

...90 year old mother should wet her bed because there are not enough staff on duty in the hospital to get bring her a bed pan in less than 30 minutes?

3 times this has happened in a week. I am furious, heartbroken and outraged.

OP posts:
dontdisstheteens · 08/11/2010 10:51

The staff will hate it too. Sad

Complain, shout and complain again. If people don't nothing will change.

oldenoughtowearpurple · 08/11/2010 10:52

Time for a formal complaint.

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/11/2010 10:54

Complain, in writing. The staff will probably thank you for it as understaffing will be putting a strain on them. A written complaint will shift the strain to someone who can do something about it.

Iwishiwasalive · 08/11/2010 10:56

How horrible and undignified for your poor mother. You definitely need to complain in writing.

MrsGangly · 08/11/2010 11:18

I would also recommend complaining. The nurses on the ward more than likely also find it terribly frustrating and upsetting as well. Complaints might help their case for more nurses and HCAs.

Original poster
seeker · 08/11/2010 11:18

The staff do hate it - but there are 8 elderly ladies in the bay, and, as far as I can tell, at the most, 2 nurses at any one time. My mother is physically very frail, but because she is very sharp mentally, I suspect that, naturally enough, they deal with the shouters and weepers and wanderers first. Which is absolutely fine when it comes to filling up her water jug or something, but not when it comes to bedpans.

OP posts:
WassaAxolotl · 08/11/2010 13:21

Complain about the understaffing. Please. The staff do not want to leave your mother to soil herself. They do not. But they don't want someone at the other end of the ward to die while they're getting bedpans.

They shouldn't have to choose, and your mother shouldn't be humiliated like this.

Complain.

read Militant Medical Nurse's blog

Original poster
seeker · 08/11/2010 21:28

Shit. They have now said that she should wear an incontinence pad "in case of accidents"

They aren't "accidents" They are a normal woman who needs to go to the loo and can't wait half an hour. Hell, I'm not sure I could wait half an hour and I;m half her age.

OP posts:
LoveMyGirls · 08/11/2010 21:31

Surely she can choose to say no to the pads?

dontdisstheteens · 08/11/2010 21:33

No way. This is totally unacceptable. Have you asked for an explanation. What do they say? Does it make it easier to change the bed? ARGHHHH!

Back track, why is she in and what care does she need?

Original poster
seeker · 08/11/2010 21:34

Absolutely she can. But she is now really worried - imagine pressing the buzzer and not being sure tha someone will come in time - it's very stressful for her.

OP posts:
LoveMyGirls · 08/11/2010 21:51

Of course, it's so sad they don't have enough staff and that they are the only choice they are offering to her Sad

ChippingIn · 08/11/2010 21:56

Seeker - I'm sorry :(

It is not good enough.

Is there anyway she could have a bedpan within reach or a comode or a walker....

There has to be another option for her. I would not allow them to 'make' her wear an IP when she doesn't need it.

Original poster
seeker · 08/11/2010 22:09

She was living more or less independently (with a carer coming in in the morning while she had a shower - the only thing she was worried about doing alone) until about 5 weeks age. Then she had a ulcer on her leg that wouldn;t heal, so she was taken into hospital. Then a week later, still in hospital, she fell snd broke her hip. She had a hip replacement which went very well, but she now has a painful non-healing ulcer on one leg and a new hip on the other. So she can't get herself out of bed and onto a comode - she needs help to do that.

It would be so much easier if her mind was as frail as her body - but it isn't. She is as sharp as she ever was.

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 08/11/2010 22:29

Is this a long term solution (the care home) or is it just until her ulcer heals (or by non-healing do you mean it will never heal?)?

All you can do really is help her stand up for herself and not allow them to institutionalise her!

It's such a shame when she was doing so well at home :(

Kitta · 08/11/2010 23:19

I can assure you that changing a bed is a lot more bother that getting someone on a commode or bedpan. T
Of course she should and can say no to the pads. I would guess that they have offered this as they're worried about skin break down, the pad will draw the urine away from the skin, but it still isn't good enough.
One of the biggest issues I used to have and mainly with the sharper/brighter patients was they could see you were busy and didn?t want to bother you and then well it was all too late and horribly embarrassing and undignified for the patient.

Ask her to get in to the habit of asking for help before she thinks she needs it, if that makes sense, maybe planning wee breaks?
Is she been seen by the physio? and the OT sometimes they can suggest equipment that can help

Is she been seen by the Tissue Viability Nurse or their equivalent for the ulcer?

And complain; make it clear that you are not complaining about the staff but about the lack of staff. Shout and stomp and yell* and threaten to go to the local papers, in the short term it might actually get an extra body in there.

As said in a previous thread, Elderly Care wards are notoriously short staffed, and the management rely on the fact that most of the patients aren?t in a state to complain or are too afraid to and that their families don?t have the stomach for it

Kitta · 08/11/2010 23:20

Oh and I hope she gets better soon...

cuppatino · 08/11/2010 23:24

Can I suggest that you complain to PALS? The ward really stepped up a notch when I complained to them about my father's treatment. Our complaints to nurses and doctors got a bit lost between shifts.

spiderlight · 08/11/2010 23:36

Oh, bless her. Definitely complain. We had similar with my dad last year (again while recovering from a broken hip) and I wish I'd complained, but he desperately didn't want to make a fuss :(

edam · 08/11/2010 23:37

It's that kind of understaffing that led to mid-Staffordshire. This is absolutely unacceptable and senior management needs to be held to account.

Your mother went into hospital an independent, mobile perfectly well functioning person. Their neglect has cost her her mobility and her dignity. She should not have fallen. That is a hospital-acquired injury. (I know wards are understaffed, that does not make it right and the people responsible for understaffing need to be sorted out.)

She is perfectly continent - how DARE they try to force her into using incontinence products because the managers are failing to employ enough staff?

You need to get angry and shout VERY loudly until the chief executive takes personal responsibility for the shit way he or she is running the hospital.

I'd write to the chief executive personally (and send by email). And copy it to PALS and your MP. Give the chief executive 48 hours to respond - this is an urgent situation given the completely inappropriate administration of incontinence pads and the risk of further falls.

piscesmoon · 09/11/2010 10:25

I really feel for her. I am posting a lot at the moment because I have my 88yr old mother, with a broken leg, staying with me and can't get out much. She had it pinned so was up and about and able to get to the loo herself. She was in hospital a while and I could see her going downhill and getting 'old ladyish'.
I think that it is very hard, her body is wearing out(she had other mobility problems)but her mind is as sharp as ever. She plays Bridge, does cryptic crosswords etc.Luckily she was on a ward where the majority of the elderly were compos mentis, but even so it was annoying-e.g the TV was on all the time. She did manage to get it switched off at meal times, she didn't realise a nurse was behind her when she commented that she didn't see why it should be on when no one was watching and the nurse went and switched it off. It was a shame because when I asked her if she had watched Downton Abbey , a programme I knew she would have watched at home, she said there was no point as people talked all through any programme.
I don't think that it is the nurses fault-they are understaffed (too many chiefs and not enough Indians!)but I would complain. Using pads is like giving people medication just for convenience. Take edam's advice.

sarah293 · 09/11/2010 10:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

piscesmoon · 09/11/2010 10:33

My mother couldn't fault the nurses, (and she is one to find fault if there is one to be found!) she was quite amazed by the amount of work they had to get through-I think that she was in a good hospital-just understaffed.

edam · 09/11/2010 13:15

But Riven's right, sometimes it is the staff. Sadly. My sister's a nurse and has come across some appalling practice. An A&E department sent a man with a history of heart failure who had clear symptoms demonstrating he needed urgent investigation and treatment back to her unit because he had a learning disability and they couldn't be bothered with him.

piscesmoon · 09/11/2010 13:27

Unfortunately Riven is right-my aunt had staff like that-it is the 'luck of the draw' and it shouldn't be.

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