Is there such thing as English culture anymore?

[Wintersnow]

Okay actually I'm not sure if this is the right catergory, I am just genuinly interested in other peoples views and not trying to start a war of words
I have spent years of my life living abroad in several different countries (Japan, Thailand & Brazil) and among other things love the rich cultural aspect & identity of these countries, there is a real sense of pride (not in a BNP way!!!) in their country & culture. I personally don't see as much of this in England, except for when the world cup is on. My husband is Brazilian/Japanese and when teaching our children about their cultural background he has so much to teach them and pride to instill in them and I always seem to have less. I saw a comment on mumsnet the other day saying ' England doesn't have an 'English culture', we a multi-cultural society', what do you think? Can I just add that Brazil is a complete mix racially, far more so than the UK. Am interested to hear your views!

Well we know how to queue .

And I think we have a culture of generosity. But I wish English culture was more family orientated. I love how some cultures have generations of family looking after one another & staying close together, it just seems more natural.

I think you see what you look for, bearcrumble. What I have seen over the years in England is:

grandmothers and granddads picking up in the playground- yes, you could see it negatively as a result of inadequate family leave provision or positively as a sign that the extended family is actually still alive and kicking

harking back to the past- yes, but very rarely in a "how great that we oppressed other nations"-sense, more in a willingness to learn

celebrating ignorance- don't know about that, a fair few parents on here still seem to think that education matters

unhealthy drinking and eating habits- yes, but also a revived interest in cooking and growing own food, smoking no longer ubiquitous, drinking and driving no longer acceptable, and most people I know drink far less than my ILs generation

Can we guarantee that those grandparents picking up children now won't be chucked in old people's homes when they can't look after themselves? After all everyone has to work - who's going to be at home to look after them?

Education for education's sake or for the resulting university place/job?

A sector of the middle class has started embracing allotments etc - it's all part of the current nostagia trip for the 40s (bunting, tea dresses, yawn) but on the whole people here eat crap. I've always eaten well but I'm half Italian and my dad is a chef so it was always going to be that way.

I am exaggerating for effect - but there is a grain of truth in what I'm saying.

Also round here (SE London) people never queue for buses any more - it's been this way for abotu 20 years. It's a shame.

bearcrumble I would agree with the extended family comment, although tbh I see a lot of other countries going that way too, just perhaps it happened to us a genration earlier than in a lot of places, I think financial security has a lot to do with it, people no longer need to rely on their family as they did way back when.
There are a lot of English cultural ideas coming up here, it's great to see things celebrated

Would also agree with the rubbish food comment, even in France which isn't far away they eat a lot of well prepared fresh food, I remember stopping at a motorway service station and being surprised they had fresh baguettes, cheese and nice fruit! Wonder if it's our climate making itharder to grow fresh food therefore making it more expensive?

Obviously French food is in general far better than ours. But we don't have to make out that every aspect of our culture is superior to someone else's in order to be proud of it.

It is like loving your child or your parents. It doesn't matter to me that there are other children who are better at History than DS. He is still my DS and I love and appreciate who he is. It is the same with my country. I don't have to worry about whether it is better or worse than someone else's; I like it even with its faults.

I think there is a lot more extended family togetherness behind the scenes if you look for it. So many women involved one way or another in caring for elderly relatives, visiting them every day, taking care of them, so many grandmas and granddads sharing the childcare, so many of dcs mates who clearly have close ties with their cousins. The mere fact that MN is full of women stressing over overbearing MILs and disastrous family events suggests that this is something that people still expect. Even if MIL is an overbearing tyrant or FIL a drunkard, they still agonise over cutting contact, because family contact is the norm.

As for "chucked in old people's homes"- that does not have to be an expression of lack of family ties. My MIL is unable to live at home- whether in her own house or with us/my BIL, because the equipment she needs is not something that could be fitted into a private home, and she needs round the clock care which would be impossible for someone who had to leave the house to take children to school etc- it would simply not be safe. Both my BIL and ourselves did look into it, but there was no way. So we poured family togetherness into finding her just the right home, where BIL and SIL visit her every day, we ring her every night and visit as often as we can (other end of country to be near BIL).

fwiw I have always thought Swedes are very strong on family togetherness - both parents usually very involved in childcare, divorced couples tend to end up living within yards of each other because it is so important to be involved in the children, still perfectly normal for extended family to spend all holidays together etc- but it is also perfectly normal for people to go into homes when they can no longer live on their owns, people accept it as a very normal and even sometimes look forward to it, because these homes are rather nice places, with lots of crafts activities etc. They do not have the rather grim connotations of old people's homes in this country.

Which just bears out my main contention that you cannot judge one country on the criteria of another.

I think we do-
I love quintessentially British things-
jolly hockeysticks attitude
being strong
scones and tea
roast dinners
national trust
massive animal lovers
accepting of other cultures
womens rights

wrt the family thing- I think it depends where you're from- here oop north it's really family orientated- on Friday night our park was swarming with families of all generations, loved it!

Esspecially the weather..

We have culture OP, but modern politicians act as though we shouldnt be proud of our history, and perhaps this is manifesting in a more subdued celebration of our Englishness.

Then you have the scots/welsh/NI all busy stepping away from being British and talking up their own cultures, further impacting on the English psyche.

Its no wonder that we are a bit lost at the moment. It'll come back though :)

Hope so!

There can be a tendency towards pessimism and looking on the gloomy side of life. The 'whinging Pom', as bearcrumble's posts neatly encapsulate.

I really don't understand why you would come onto a thread like this to be negative...!

However I do think those attitudes are dying out with the older generations. There is so much to be proud of, so they should be!!

I say this as a non-English.