AIBU or is this too much for a 14yr old?

[Mushroomflumps]

MN Jury - restore peace in Flumpsland please.

My 14 year old dd for the last 6 months has been doing RAF cadets. We said that when she started if it was too much and she was tired we would stop it.

It's meant to be 7pm-9.30pm two nights a week in reality it's 6.15pm-9.50pm two nights a week every week. It's every other weekend, ranging between 5 and 7 hours each time.

They give no notice, as in this week my dd came home on Thursday, and said she needs to be at Squadron 3.30-10.30 today. If she doesn't go then she gets shouted at at the next meeting.

She doesn't get home from school until 5.30pm, I don't get home from work until 5.45pm, I then need to get the rest of the family and her tea, and leave by 6pm to get there for 6.15 otherwise they get shouted at if they are late.

She hasn't got time to do her homework 2 nights a week, she's shattered, which is making her ratty with everyone.

The reason she wants to do it is because she wants to be a commercial pilot, she does not want to join the RAF. They have said she will fly at least once a year, most likely 2/3 times a year. Each actual flying time is 3 minutes. Therefore this gives her max 9 minutes flying time a year, by the time she's 18 she'll have maximum 36 minutes!

I would prefer to pay for her to have flying lessons.

AIBU to stop her from going to Cadets?

Have you talked to her about the alternatives and whether or not she is happy there?
My cousin has been in the RAF cadets for a couple of years now and it isn't just the flying time, he has had opportunities to go in a glider, go abroad, take part on sports/competitive swimming and running and a lot of other things that he simply wouldn't have been able to do before. he got to march in the Birmingham Military Tattoo www.militarytattoo.org/ last year and was completely thrilled. He does want to join the RAF when he turns 18 but not as a pilot so it is slightly different I guess.

If your daughter enjoys cadets in general I do think it would be harsh to not let her go. It seems strange she is being shouted at if she misses one of the weekends though . Maybe talk to her officer in charge?

If she's exhausted, bad-tempered and not able to keep up with her schoolwork, then I'd have to say I'd stop her from doing it.

I have no idea whether it will help her get accepted as a commercial pilot, but I'd imagine any signs of an ongoing interest in flying (like flying lessons) would be just as good a thing to have on er application.

Is it two school nights a week that she is busy till 9.50 pm (with school the next day)? If so, I'd saythat's a bit much (two latish nights getting to bed with an early start for school the next day)

Her side of the argument -

She loves it and wants to go.

She is not tired - the rest of the household strongly disagrees!!!

She says she is keeping up with her homework - she does the bare minimum travelling to and from school, so not the best work/grades she could do, but doesn't get into trouble with teachers.

She doesn't need dinner before going - we have an eating battle as it is anyway.

Monday and Thursday evenings.

It depends what she thinks about it. If she really enjoys it then I'd let her continue.
DD1 has always been busy with activities and at times I've felt it was a bit much but she enjoys them.
It doesn't sound as though the flying experience is worth it. Does she know that you are happy to pay for flying lessons and are you happy with the cost?

No, I think I'd be putting my big, fat parenting boot down and saying no, on the basis of what you have posted.
Shattered, no time to do homework to the best of her ability? marking success in school by the lowest possible level of not being in trouble with the teachers?
Enough said.

Yes I've taken her to the local flying school, showed her what was involved, said that we'd pay for it. She said she'd prefer to get her PPL with Cadets, I said that wasn't going to happen, she's adament it is, RAF don't even do PPL, but of course mother knows nothing!!!

Is there another squadron she could go to locally, my Dd1 had a completly different experience to this, Yes they were strict but not to that extreme.

It's a shame but you and your other kids have to have a life to.

kind of wondering why she likes it there so much if they get shouted at publically for missing a weekend session. Particular boy there?

What do they do there for 3 1/2 hours a night during the week?

I suppose it is the convivality of it that she likes, a nice social occasion and there are so much worse things young teenagers can end up doing with their time IYSWIM. However I would probably stop it, if she is getting too tireda nd it is affecting school.

Is there any possiblity of going just once a week and then to the weekend sessions or is it an "all or nothing" set-up?

Cadets aren't forced to do extra activities outside of the two squadron nights, it's totally up to them (although they do like to make remembrance services compulsory, which I don't see a problem with). If it turns out it's the staff who are pressuring the cadets into turning up for events they don't want to then that's a serious problem and you need to approach wing staff (if that appears to be the case, let me know and I can line you up with the appropriate person; but you need to be sure that's what's happening).

Generally sqn staff should give at least two weeks notice for weekend activities, and with all due respect, quite often notices are put up and cadets just don't read them. However, I'm afraid to say a few sqns are a bit disorganised so maybe they might be leaving it to the last minute.

About the flying? No, she's mistaken. A cadet flight will last anything between 30-40 minutes dependent on the pilot/weather conditions. They're brilliant, if she wants to be a commercial pilot, the RAF pilot can take her through basic flying skills and then maybe move onto more advanced things if she gets more flights. When she reaches late teens she can even got a gliding and flying scholarship (which are fantastic).

I would really encourage you to let her stick at it. I joined Air Cadets (note, they aren't RAF cadets I'm afraid :)) when I was 13 and at the time I had recently been orphaned and was a drunken yob hanging round on street corners getting into trouble with the police. Cadets slowly turned me into a different person altogether, enough to get me through RAF officer training when the odds were against me once I was of the right age. Of course, the same transformation may not be necessary for your own daughter, but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from :) Cadets don't just learn how to fly/shoot/general aviation knowledge, they also learn valuable life skills. I'm not exaggerating on this :)

Hope I've swayed you, I realise I've gone on quite a bit, sorry!

Well if she is going so that she can get her PPL and you know for sure that's not possible then I think you do need to persuade her to do the flying lessons instead.

Sounds more like a problem with the people running the group than your DD.

Can she make the tea on the nights that she goes (or at least put the oven on an heat up a casserole that you have pre-made) so it is not quite so rushed? Or she has a sandwhich and you and the rest of the family eat when she is away?

There are Much Worse things a 14yr old could be doing.

I suggest you should talk to the senior instructor directly about the number of hours and current lack of notice (and what really happens if she has to miss all/part of a session). There might be more flexibility than currently seems likely. Also, IMHO, the leaders are really hot on good performance at school and good conduct everywhere. You might just find a virtuous circle here.

Good luck in sorting it out; I hope you can find a way for her to continue, not least as she is so motivated by the whole experience.

Before you think of stopping her going why don't you check what's actually going on with the Cadets. I can't believe that they should be giving no notice of weekend stuff so either she's forgetting to tell you in time or the leader is screwing up.

You should also check if the weekend stuff is compulsary. If not, you can use it as a bribe/threat if her school work needs more attention.

Is there no-one that goes to Cadets she's friends with? Could she go and have dinner with them and on to cadets once a week, maybe in exchange for you giving the friend a lift home?

If she's so enthusiastic I'd be very wary of stopping her from going. I'd work on the responsibility/give and take angle ie if you want to go on the weekends I must have at least a weeks notice; If you are doing late nights for cadets you need to be going to bed earlier the other nights.

If you give her measurable targets and she fails then it will be her fault she can't go

www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/

had a look at it now and I think if that is her type of thing, it sounds good to me. If you stop her going now so her school work doesn't suffer, I cannot help thinking her response will be to totally let the school work slide

I think have a word with someone in the know in your squadron or elsewhere and find out a bit more about the requirements/what she can do there PPL etc and see if you can find a way of making it work for your family. Speak to a teacher re school work/achievement and I might make it all dependent on her doing some extra study for school in her weakest two subjects ( because I'm really mean by nature)

Give it a bit longer (as in a trial period) and if you are still cncerned about her tiredness/school work/homework rethink it.

linked properly

Just to confirm a few things, because I volunteer every so often as a Service Instructor at the local sqns.

Weekend activities are NOT compulsory. Cadet instructors realise that kids have school pressures and that they have a life outside of cadets, so if cadets respectably say, "Sorry Sir, I'm really busy with school work at the moment so I won't be able to attend this weekend." or likewise, and that's not a problem.

The PPL can't be achieved within cadets, but it most certainly provides the foundations of a flying career. You learn about principles of flight (how a plane flies, how to control it, how to use instruments in the cockpit), and as mentioned get the odd flight here and there.

I think the best way to approach this is .....

the nights shes not at cadets she must do her studies and she must eat well and rest.

The nights she is at cadets she is allowed to have an 'easy tea' scrambled eggs/beans/spaghetto in toast that she can make herself.

You will speak to her officer and say that she is allowed to do weekends but only every other weekend unless its v important.

As a result of you bending yourself and the rest of the family to accomodate her hobby she has to do xyz jobs in the home and promise to eat well and rest.

I have teens and if she agrees to that its a miracle its just one bloody battle after another here .

Thank you for your points.

I've asked her what the situation is with today from her pov, they are helping out with fireworks. She said it was only confirmed on Wednesday that it was on, and therefore they were only told about it definitely on Thursday. It isn't compulsory for her to attend, but due to them wanting to attend, they put a lot of pressure on, and her words 'shout' at the group saying how it is important they do the other stuff and not just pick and choose the bits they like.

I do agree with this in theory, and my dd is sensitive to being told off (although not phased by her parents telling her off!!!).

The longer hours are due to band practice of 45 minutes, classroom based stuff, and the squadron leader always being late on closing part, normally telling others off, so it's delayed by 20 minutes to get out.

She does really enjoy all aspects of it.

I think I will carry on the trial period, and give her another 6 months to prove to me that she will eat and rest at all other occassions, and that if she wants me to explain to the leader that I will only allow her to do stuff with more than a week's notice, so that it is not her getting blamed I am happy to do so.

I am concerned with school work, as I can only see it being harder to juggle the two with GCSEs than easier, and she starts GCSEs next September.

With the case of this weekend, I have to say I can see where the commanding officer is coming from because as cadets you've got to be prepared to put a bit of hard work in in order to get some great activities out of it. However, it boils down to the fact that if a cadet is busy, they're busy; simple as that. They should have been more accepting than normal also because of the short notice.

I was quite a sensitive young lad (deep down, somewhere) and the 'shouting' sometimes put me off. But the fact of the matter is it's a military environment, if watered down a little. Furthermore, discipline has progressed from when I was a cadet and now instructors are encouraged to earn discipline through respect, not fear. This means not yelling at everyone and anyone, but you've still got to expect a sharp tongue if you really fuck up

She'll develop a thicker skin and learn to not take the 'shouting' to heart, because it's never intended to do that.