to think that that employees with small dc huold have preference on having xmas eve off work?

[pippylongstockings]

I work in an office with over 15 employees - 4 of us have young DC ranging from 11 to 2 years old - Surely at christmas it is not being unreasonable to think that the minority of 4 could have Christmas Eve off work?

BUT No, it is done on a random lottery - why ?

Honestly, I feel christmas is for the children and working til 4pm on xmas eve is not a happy place to be if you have kids at home waiting for you.

OK, yes it's religious for some. It's pretty rare to hear of anyone who thinks that way though. I thought Easter was the important Christian festival.

YABU. My dh will have to work this Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and probably Boxing Day too - he's a chef. He didn't do it last year as he was on paternity leave, but he will probably have to do it next year as well as this. That's life.

As a languages teacher it used to really bug me that as one of the very few childless members of the department I was always having to arrange and go on the German exchange - during the holidays as well. It was always a total headache and I felt (and feel) I was just as entitled to a break as those with children. Same thing really - why should those without children have to work the shifts you don't want?

YABU Why should your relatives trump someone else's?
We all love our children-and want to spend time with them, but maybe the childless ones in SOME jobs feel entitled to Christmas Eve off for all of the other children's events,plays, inset days, appointments illnesses and holidays that they cover parents for over the year?

YABU it's this sort of attitude that convinces non parents that a lot of parents have their heads shoved firmly up their bottoms.

YABU.

Other people have family too. My brother, for instance, has been on call for the last 5 years because everyone else on his team has children and he hasn't. He can spend Xmas alone, or come to us. However, to spend Xmas with us he has to travel for 3 hours on a train. There are no trains on Xmas day or Boxing Day, so what is he supposed to do? Whereas, it would be easy for any of his team to get in from their homes as they all live much closer to work than we do.

I am hoping that this year he won't be so selfless and will insist on having Xmas off as our family has been so sadly depleted.

Then get a job that doesn't require you to work at Xmas then.

In YOUR OPINION Xmas is for children, in YOUR OPINION a mother needs to be there. Its not up to your colleagues to enable your dream family life.

Thats a point, I had DD the week before Xmas last year so dh coukd not take paternity leave he had to work and did so till 3pm xmas eve, getting home in time for me to whizz out to the supermarket where everyone was expected to work till 6pm.

gaelic I'm not sure where you are from but here, christmas has always involved church. children in school do nativity plays. i don't believe that you are oblivious to all this. just because you value the materialistic aspect of it doesn't mean that others feel the same. many, many people see christmas as a religious occasion and a time for seeing family, why should your children's 'need' for toys and excitement override that?

How about turning it around and looking at it from the children's point of view? Just for a change.

But what's the point of a lottery? Everyone could end up with holidays they don't want. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

It's obviously not the season of love and understanding

yabvu - why does the fact that you have children give you special treatment?

when i say 'here', i mean where i live.

gaelic i have two small dcs, i know it from the dcs point of view. it still doesn't trump anyone else's plans for xmas eve.

Why should your childless collegues look at it from your childrens point of view? Thats your job, and its tough luck that the entire world doesn't revolve around your children.

YABU, but Christamas Eve should be a public holiday IMO.

Erm I am C of E. I do not value the materialistic side of it one bit, I value the magic of Christmas that I remember from being a child and which I want my DCs to experience as well. That magic included going to carol concerts, listening to bible readings, etc. It also included decorating the Christmas tree, making mince pies, wrapping presents, etc. etc.

I also seem to recall that the Christians hijacked a pagan winter festival called Yule.

YABVU

I'm not PG net but I hate the way people assume that childless people don't have lives or anything better to do an Xmas Eve.

I once needed an emergency GP appt on Xmas eve as I was coming down with a kidney infection and my own GP was working that day and she has 3 DC's all under 8 years old. That's life.

boooooooooooooooyoo - good point. Children's needs are not more important. but they are important. I do think that a responsible employer should try to balance the needs of various employees.

gaelic try looking at it from my mum's point of view. she is a sister in an obstetrics theatre. her hours are 7.30 -3.30 everyday, but infact she rarely leaves the place before 6pm and is often there from before 7 am. her mum is 82 and lives on her own. my mum comes home from work (over an hours drive) and goes straight to my gran's (another 20 minutes journey) to make sure she has enough food in, electric on the meter and really just to say, "i love you mum and happy christmas". then my mum gets home, usually after 9pm and gets something to eat. should my gran be left alone on xmas eve with no-one calling on her because your children have been brought up to think the world exists for them?

Why would an employer look at it from the point of view of the children though? Why?

I think it totally depends on the job. If I worked in health care, for example, or any of the other important public services then of course I'd be prepared to work. But in an office making money for someone else, or in a non-essential service, well if someone has to wait until after Christmas for something to be done it's just tough. It's pointless being in a job like that on Xmas Eve anyway - no work gets done by anybody and you just feel resentful at the wasted time.

BitOfFun - no you're right. As in all matters, an employer would look at it from the pov of their bank balance.

I was the manager of a shop, my Dc's were young, my workmate always did Xmas eve for me and I did new years eve for her, worked out well.

Gaelic sheep: to hop back to you earlier post, a mother without children is called bereaved, and Christmas in those circumstances can be a real killer.

I would not expect a line manager to have to go into the detail of people's personal circumstances and make value judgements on them. That is why volunteers, lotteries and turn taking are fairest, for the very reason thatvthey exclude the personal.

onimolap - I was all too aware of the connotations of my unfortunate typing slip, which is why I was trying to make light of it. I cannot begin to imagine being in that position at any time of year.