to think it's okay to think your child's development would be best served by being with you in their early years AND still want to go back to work?

[arses]

Unashamedly a thread about a thread..

I made a point on another thread today that it is a shame that when the topic of early years childcare/SAHMs/WOHMs/nurseries etc arises that the debate becomes immediately polarised on the basis of anecdote.

There seems to be a lot of defensiveness among women about the choice to use childcare and return to work. I haven't met many men who share this response to discussions about early childhood development (though I have met some who have had quite strong opinions in favour of and against formalised childcare arrangements).

My 11 month old son is due to start nursery soon. I don't think it will do him any great favours, socially, emotionally or intellectually. It may stress him out a bit in the short-term and I'm not entirely convinced he won't find the days long, confusing and sometimes lonely. I think that, on balance, even the best of days in a nursery or with a childminder are probably a poor match for spending the time with his mum.

An older friend (with grown up children) was talking to me about childcare and advising me regarding a particular local nursery, which she extolled the virtues of highly and then said: "but of course, it isn't you".

This, to me (in a rational sense) is about the extent of it. In an emotional sense though, when I read a vitriolic thread about childcare I see such judgement and I get as swept up in it as many others. I wonder, why do we feel the need to defend this choice as we do? Is it really unreasonable to know and believe that your child would be better off with you but skip back off to work without feeling guilt about it? Is this a feminist issue?

What do people think?

YANBU, I get very frustrated by the way that any statement that group care is not ideal for most under 2s is automatically interpreted as an attack on WOHMs and an attempt to undo feminism. I think this defensiveness genuinely undermines the cause of informed decisions about what's best for young children.
Both my DCs spent time in group care when young, and if I were doing it again I'd try to make other choices. If that were impossible then I'd do my best to make things as good as possible, and accept that I'd done my best, and you sometimes have to settle for what's achievable. What I would not do is rationalise that my choice was the best for my child in order to make myself feel better.
Also agree about the fathers thing BTW.
And I say that as someone who used daycare for both children

I agree. I do think that the further away you get from these decisions, the less they seem to matter, as well

Why oh why do women do it to one another?

This grandstanding and defending our choices?

It is so unsupportive. So unseemly.

Agreed Jamie-Lee. I still torment myself over every decision I make. DM says "just look at them, they are great!"

elportodelgato - I totally agree with you on the whole childcare thing being seen as the women's domain. I recently needed to ask my dh to drop off/pick up the kids for 1 day as I needed to travel to a meeting, including (shock!) get them ready in the morning. So in addition to all the normal guilt of being a working mum, I actually felt guilty about asking him as well! There is so much guilt involved with being a mother - a friend said the injection you get post birth to hasten the final stage of labour is actually a guilt hormone .

I work 2 days a week from home and love my job, but of course love my children more. But yes, I do put my children into childcare - both have gone from 12 months and both love it, although I have always found it stressful and am aware that it is unlikely to be stress free for them. I am also aware that a large amount of the evidence suggests that, yes, children are better off at home with their mothers for the first few years. So I have a conflict. The evidence is, however, done on a population level - like most of this type of evidence - and does not necessarily mean that it is the same for all children. The quality of childcare, how much and how often are also important (there are differences between parent/grandparent/childminder/nursery, not necessarily in the order you would expect).

There are some positives though - some evidence does suggest that having a working mum can actually increases a girls self esteem.

I think Trubert is right - families must do what is right for them. I have had comments from SAHMs that I obviously don't put my children first, which was very hurtful, but then I know some working mums direct equally bitter comments to SAHMs. Isn't feminism supposed to be about choice, empowering women and supporting each other?

Y'see, this is it, isn't it? I have worked with kids in the care system and children who have been born with substance addictions and I know that x amount of time in y setting is not going to cause my ds even a speck of a fraction of a fraction of the long-term damage that - in some cases - has been done to children over the course of a few weeks post-birth in an abusive home. Yet, I have caught myself worrying, the vague whisper of the word attachment in my mind, despite, rationally, knowing several children with bone fide attachment disorders and their complex histories. Or, alternatively, a doubt creeps in about career and future earning potential and "letting the side down" etc.

It is fruitless and makes me slightly ashamed - why do men know and accept these choices are not life-threatening? Why do we presume they are? What would a feminist slant on that be, I wonder ?

amen to that passthechocs

One of the Mums at DCs school actually observed to me that had I noticed that all the kids with dyslexia etc had working Mums. I shit you not.

I've heard equally stupid shite from working Mothers.

Since I work from home around the kids, no doubt this is the worst of all worlds and will lead to my children's doooooooooooom.

Nooo Litchick - we are just vair vair jealous (but may possibly make off-colour remarks about your au pair, if you have one [hwink])

I too have had hurtful comments, mainly from much older women, but some others (no men I note). It is very distressing if you are a sensitive flower . I do not make harsh comments back because I am jealous but sometimes I think the guilt and worry have caused more damage to my family than any childcare options.

JLC I do not have an au pair, but if I did, I can assure that she would be the best au pair in the world.

My children would be learning from her in diverse cultural ways. It would have a lasting benefit that would take them into adulthood, assisting them to become rich, famous, and ravishingly good looking.

In fact anyone who didn't have such an au pair would be seriously damaging their children. Shame on them.

I think everyone feels guilty to some extent, whatever they choose, however happy they or their children are. And it's easier to translate that into being defensive - my automatic reaction to anyone disagreeing with what I think is to bristle with indignation before I stop myself and think 'that's what works for them, this is what works for me.'

The downside of feminism (the SMALL downside, of course!) is that in believing we CAN have it all, we feel like we SHOULD have it all. And MUST DO it all!

I work part-time and feel lucky to be able to do so. I would be a terrible SAHM, I know this, my DC are very happy at nursery, I want them to see that I work etc etc, but I never lose the feeling that I shouldn't be leaving them. If I stayed at home I would feel guilty for other reasons.

Why do we do this to ourselves???

I think everyone worries about it all too much. My mum was diagnosed with cancer when I was tiny and spent much time in hospital before her death when I was 4. I spent time in chilcare and passed around family members according to what was happening at the time. It must have been a nightmare situation for all concerned. Me - I don't remember any of it! Well I have some vague memories of the mushy pea smell that signified lunch in the creche

I think I am a well adjusted individual who did well at school and now have a reasonably good career and no big emotional problems. My dd went to nursery from 5 months old and she too is fine, happy and doing well at school.

Kids just need to be loved, fed, disciplined (in an appropriate manner) and stimulated. I really don't think it matters if it is Mum, Dad, Granny, nanny, CM or nursery - or a combination of all of the above. I would say quality and continuity of care is more important than it being just mum that does it.

Litchick, your dc's are not doomed, they have the best of both - no nasty WOH parent leaving them, and no naughty SAHM not modelling "how to work"