to think the govt is treating my family like a cash machine

[petelly]

So, story is met and married a forinuh (and a non EU one at that) when living abroad. We married in 2001 and have 2 dcs. In 2008 I was offered a good job in the UK and we decided to move here.

First off, £750 for a spouse visa. Usually good for two years. Then you come to the UK, take the stupid 'Life in the UK test' for £35 and then apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain which costs £840. After 3 years in the UK, you can apply for citizenship which costs £735. So over £2000 forked over to govt just for the privilege of a married couple living together.

Now, in our case, we'd been married for 7 years when we applied so we found a loop hole where dh could get indefinite leave as part of the original visa (saving us £840!!). BUT you had to take the Life in the UK test which you HAVE to sit in the UK. So dh got on a plane, flew to the UK, sat the test (passed ) and flew back again which cost us £400 plus carbon footprint - but significant saving for us.

Then last year our bag was stolen while we were abroad with all our passports. We all got new passports - easy enough.

But then the flipping border agency charged £270 for a replacement visa stamp in dh's passport. Now, the worst thing is that you'd think for that money you'd get a good service but NO!!! With the replacement stamp the border agency kept his passport for SIX MONTHS DH lost work because he couldn't prove he was eligible to work in the UK. He also nearly missed a previously booked business trip but persuaded his embassy to give him a temporary second passport (another £100). Our MP got involved and his assistant found dh's original indefinite leave within SECONDS on the computer.

When dh applies for citizenship, the Border Agnecy also say it can take six months. But WHY FFS if we are paying through our noses? can't they at least provide a decent service? They also have a premium number phone-line where you get through to some passive-agressive 'computer says no' kind of person.

The Border Agency openly say that they use the revenue generated by over-charging legal immigrants to fund the deportation of illegal immigrants to make the immigration system self-funding. WTF!!! So all non-EU immigrants need to PAY for illegal immigrants??? I don't get it and it just doesn't seem fair.

We also get charged a 'community integration fee' to help LAs struggling with high immigration levels. But a lot of the problems are caused by EU immigrants eg Polish who don't speak English and don't pay a penny because they're EU. I'm British, my children are British, we all speak English - and no-one has lifted a finger to help us 'integrate' either. So why are we paying for a fucking community integration fee??

Is it just me (because we're paying!!!) or does this just seem totally OTT, unfair and exploiting people who don't have much of a choice???

I got citizenship so I never, ever had to deal with the home office/border agency again.

I did the life in the UK test which was, at best, silly. In theory it seems like an okay test if you read the whole handbook (which you have to really or you might not pass - its not necessarily "easy" to pass, because the questions are so silly and you have to get the right answer as said in the book, not necessarily the right answer in actual truth or law!)

It wasn't too expensive when I did it, seems I did it just in the nick of time.

Its not the money for me either, its the service. They took my Aussie passport (which doesn't belong to them, or me technically, but the Australian Government) and said they might have it for up to a year, which meant at the time that if a member of my family tragically died, I wouldn't be able to fly home to their funeral or anything; they said there was no guarantee that I'd get further leave to remain and if so I'd have to be deported and never see my husband again. None of it happened and I had the passport back within about 4 weeks but you wonder if they actually enjoy trying to upset young impressionable newlyweds! I was a 23 year old blushing bride at the time and couldn't believe what they were telling me!

Hence getting citizenship a few years later.

Ugh now I have the same rights as everybody else, thank goodness.

Getting citizenship meant more than that to me to be fair. I do feel loyal to Britain and its my adopted home and mother country etc etc but sadly I got citizenship because I was scared, not through love of the country alone.

YANBU, it is a load of bullshit.

he is from ghana, they are getting married next month in ghana. I'm not sure what the immediate plan is but I know they want to live in the UK (from what she has said)

I am concerned as you do hear about men marrying english women for less than genuine reasons. However, my cousin is quite sensible so from her point of view I think it is totally genuine.

He has tried twice to get a visa to visit UK, once was turned down because they claimed the charity my cousin worked for on her gap year was fake, and once because when my cousins mum agreed to act as reference (or sponsor or soemthing) they questioned the fact that my aunt has a different surname to my cousin (she remarried recently)

The man says all this is completely normal and that he knows people who have had to apply for vias'a 4 times before being granted them due to the corruption in his country and them wanting to charge the fee's over and over.

TattyDevine

Our sentiments exactly. When we phoned Border Agency after losing our passports, they suggested DH remain where he was and apply for a visa there whcih can take months because there was no guarantee he'd be allowed back into the country.

Luckily the Border Agency people at Heathrow are human and have quite a lot of discretion and let him in without a quibble after a few checks.

I'm living here a EU citizen although I identify as American and don't speak the language of the passport I hold! been here 4 years... married can't become a british citizen because i'm EU and haven't lived here 5 years! I Can apply as an American though after 3 years wtf?? how does that work... WHy punish someone for being EU who WANTS to become a British citizen, I'm already entiteled to all the same benefits etc as a British person..so it isn't because of that either.

Btw can't even apply as an american as I haven't got a visa to live in the UK as an american...because I live here under my other nationality!

gingernutlover

Tell your cousin to get her MP involved. It might help.

i think the problem is with the ghanaian side of things though - although if things go the way we fear I will definatly suggest it.

The wedding will go ahead whatever, I think.

Discowife

The 3 year residency rule only applies to spouses. Otherwise it's 5 years for everyone. It's nothing to do with nationality.

As an EU citizen, what extra would British citizenship give you?

petelly - I have been married to a kenyan for almost 13 years.

He has been in the uk for around 20 years.

Guess when he got his leave to remain?

A few months ago.

They've lost his application, duplicated his application, put it to the bottom of the pile because it's so old that they have to deal with the newer ones first , I believe I remember an office move at one point, that saw all the files all over the place and all sorts of crap.

We have had this hanging over us our entire marriage.

They are so imcompetent it takes your breath away.

incompetent.

of all the words to typo.

We can't afford for (Canadian) DH to get citizenship and he's not that bothered about it. He travels a lot for work and has never had any problems with passport control. We just can't justify the cost, it's not that far off a month's mortgage for us and we're planning to move to Canada in a few years anyway.

I would consider us a middle-income family, I've got no idea how families that earn less can afford to stay together.

You know why they did that HQW? Because they'd missed their target with him (a very very generous 6 months that they give themselves) so no harm done then in keeping you waiting years.

I hate the Border Agency so much (apart from the ones at Heathrow who have always been lovely to us ).

If you're working in the UK on a work visa and have a baby during that time, it costs nearly £500 just for a stamp in the baby's passport so she or he can leave the country with you and get back in. As a result, we haven't been to see any of our family in 2 years :(

The charges they put on official documents in this country are just offensive. Even simple passports are a rip-off.

If you fall in love and marry someone, you should have the right to live in each other's countries, without rigmarole and without becoming bankrupt. Full stop.

EauRouge

I think that if you are moving to Canada, then it's even more important to get citizenship. You lose indefinite leave after 2 years out of the country so if you decided, for whatever reason, to move back, you'll have to start the whole process from the beginning (and it'll probably be even more difficult then). Once you get citizenship then you don't have that problem.

petelly I am married to a British citizen and told I can not apply for 5 years. Shouldn't I be able to apply after 3?

I have lost my passport for the other country and at the moment anytime I come in and out of the UK I get loads of hassle. because I wasn't born in the other country they are making reissuing my paperwork a hassle. I don't speak the language and can't navigate their website for help. (they don't do phone help and I even showed up and was told NO YOU HAVE TO make an appt on line. Also I need a birth cerificate but I won't be issued one unless I am IN THE OTHER COUNTRY.

My husband is English, my children will be English. For the sake of an easier life I would prefer all my future dealing in the EU to go through the UK.

BTW the hassle comes from me entering the country on a US passport, which gives me 6 months to stay here..and then when I get the guy in Heathrow who actually checks and sees I have been here a year.. it looks dodgy and I get loads of questions.

petelly thank you for posting your frustration. YANBU at all to feel annoyed. I'm from the US originally and DH is British. We both feel the costs are ridiculous.

Still, some of the more ridiculous ones seem to have been abolished. When DH and I first decided to get married, the Certificate of Approval (so that we could apply for a marriage license) cost something like £395 and it could easily be refused. That's been abolished (the fee, not the CoA)apparently and many who paid that have been reimbursed. Too late for DH and I who found it easier to fly to the States and get married there. I should add that DH finds the whole CoA process insulting. He says he hates the idea that the Home Office can make a judgment on his love for me and thus imply that he doesn't know his own mind or heart.

I have got a spousal visa now and the people we dealt with were very nice. Heathrow immigration is wonderfully efficient except for one lady who didn't know where Reading was or what a PhD was (I was studying there at the time). Her supervisor sorted it out though and it was fine.

Discowife sounds complicated - and I really sympathise because the BA seem to completely lose it with 'complicated' cases. The reason they kept DH's passport for 6 months was because his indefinite leave had been issued by the consulate in New York. They just kept on and on about the fact that it hadn't been issued by the Home Office.

So, way I understand it, if you are the spouse of a British citizen, then residency is only 3 years to citizenship. I don't know if you HAVE to have applied for Indefinite Leave as a spouse as well - it's like you came in as an EU citizen but you're applying for citizenship as a spouse on your US passport and I think the BA will find that difficult to process!!!

Its worse going to the US. I have an American husband. 6 months of hell for me and the children at the US Embassy. You must be there at 8am so you must stay in London. You pay to file for the visa, you pay for the medical exam, you are interviewed, even the 5 yo was asked 'do you intend to commit acts of terorism in the US?' among other questions.
Then, if you arent up to date with all your vaccines they offer all at the same time.
If you refuse you pay another $1200 each to file a vaccination waiver.
Finally, 6 months later, after being alone for 6 months as your husband had to start his job and while a visa application is being processed you may not fly on a visit to the US, you are issued the visa and pay another $500 for them to pass it to you over the counter (it must be fetched in person)
A licence to print money.

I have tried discussing it with several people petelly they all seem as though their heads might spontantuosly combust.

I don't really think it is that complicated... But yes, it differs slightly form the norm and that seems to be enough to drive them over the bend.

The best bit is we might be leaving the country before I have been here 5 years so before I can apply for citizenship.. and will need to start over when we come back in a few years time. Unless I can blag being here the whole time.

TheDeadlyLampshade how come the five year old was questioned, should they not be entitled to citizenship based on your husband?

Btw I am currently going through this with my husband too! he has his interview next week!

Discowife
I sound like a broken record, but get your MP involved. The BA might actually listen to him/her.

We actually have a brilliant local MP and I wsh I had thought of that earlier, but the likely hood is I will be moving back to the states in the next 6 month or so. With 2 cats and a newborn that is due in 3 months time! Enough on my plate I think :)

None of the children were able to claim US citizenship because of DH. Am American citizen must have lived in their own country for 5 years before age 16 and 1 year after or somesuch.
DH only spent one year there, after he was born. Never went back.
So he couldn't pass on his 'American-ness'
So all the kids had to apply for a permanent resident visa like me. And be asked stupid questions. Like who is going to say 'oh yes'
You are also asked if you've ever been a member of the Communist Party
I sat there dreading the 5 yo or 6 yo saying 'ooo yes' cos these poeple have no sense of humour!
I also got asked if I'd married DH to get an an American visa (3 kids is very dedicated falso marriage) and had to show photos of all of us with the children at different stages of their lives.