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AIBU?

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Original poster

To say Hallowe'en is not an American import?

49 replies

MaimAndKilloki · 27/10/2010 12:54

Because it's not!

It's based on Samhain, a Celtic festival, it was a night thought to be when the veil between the world of the living and dead was thinnest, and people dressed up in order to fool those from the other side of the veil so that they wouldn't know they were alive and take them back with them.

Trick or treating came partly from that tradition. And also from souling, where people would pray for the dead in exchange for treats.

The other idea behind trick or treating was that by treating those that came to your door you would be blessed and be safe from the spirits.

As Samhain was seen as the end of the year (no more crops growing after that), it was also a way of ensuring you got through the winter safely, and were promised a good year after.

It is not an American import, we sent it over there first.

OP posts:
PaisleyPumpkin · 27/10/2010 12:56

yanbu
But don't most people know that already and when they complain about it being an American import they are talking about the commercialism of halloween being an American import.

SirBoobAlot · 27/10/2010 12:56

THANK YOU.

Its been annoying me no end. I did want to write to the bishop of Chichester who said we should "take Hallowe'en back to its Christian roots" Biscuit.

meltedmarsbars · 27/10/2010 12:57

We did it bigtime in Scotland when I was wee.

We had to tell a joke or say poem to get the treats.

nancy75 · 27/10/2010 12:57

i think the fact that it is suddenly so comercial is an American import. I have bee in America for Hallowe'en a couple of times and I was amazed by what a big thing it was - it is only in the last 2 or 3 years it has become that way here. When i was a kid the shops sold pumpkins and witches hats now sainsburys has whole isles dedicated to plastic scarey tat!

Original poster
MaimAndKilloki · 27/10/2010 13:01

SirBoobALot I saw that and ranted continuously for about an hour, with DH just sat there saying "you do realise I agree with you right?"

That's the other thing, the commercialisation, as if America invented it.

I do with I was in America over Hallowe'en, they do it so much better than us. How can we invent a festival then suck at it so much?

OP posts:
noyoucant · 27/10/2010 13:03

YADNBU. The phrase "trick or treat" may have American connotations but we've been celebrating Hallowe'en here in (northern) Ireland all my lifetime. Certainly it's become a lot more commercialised, as has life generally, and pretty much every other holiday/festival, but it's certainly not an American import.

GoreRenewed · 27/10/2010 13:04

The reason they do it better is because they care about it. All we have done is take the US commercial side of it and overlay it over... well nothing really. We never did Hallowe'en when I was a child. It doesn't mean that it didn't exist as a festival it was just very low-key.

3thumbedwitch · 27/10/2010 13:05

YANBU in principle but I agree with nancy re. the commercialisation of it. And we never did trick or treating when we were little (London area) - we used to have fab Hallowe'en parties though! I miss that aspect of it, I hated the trick or treating (mostly because it was done round my way by yoof demanding money with menaces!)
It's not on such a big scale where I live now in NSW, but one of the main things you can buy is the plastic pumpkin bucket for collecting your treats. Thankfully there aren't really any children round here to do it - DS is way too young and I'd rather have parties when he's bigger than go t-or-t'ing.

I am :( about it really because I loved Hallowe'en as a child (and still love the parties)

GoreRenewed · 27/10/2010 13:05

I tell a lie -we used to make turnip lanterns but they were more for Guy Fawkes than Hallowe'en.

lorelilee · 27/10/2010 13:07

YANBU - it's always been done in Scotland - when I was little we always went out 'guising' and went to peoples doors chanting "the sky is blue, the grass is green, please may I have my halloween?" and you then had to tell a joke or sing a song to get some apples and monkey nuts. Everyone used to get really excited, and word passed round quickly, if someone was known to have made candy apples.

Ninks · 27/10/2010 13:07

YANBU, we celebrated Hallowe'en back in the nineteen seventies [hshock]

The only difference I can make out is that costumes in America could be anything, not just spookily-themed.

This is all based on the Ramona Quimby books by the way and is solid conjecture.

Kitta · 27/10/2010 13:08

Thank you so much, this drives me nuts! And as for it only becoming a big issue because of the US well I can say that it was the biggest night out as a teenager in Ireland. And as little kids there was always a few partys going with various traditional games and lots of toasted barmbrack. (trying to remember all the bits it should have in it. think I'll have to make some tonight)

We always dressed up, and decorated the house though it was all home made, and there was usually a bonfire too.

Oh a flour fights and , getting very sad and want to be 15 again [hsad] [hsad]

Ghoulysses · 27/10/2010 13:11

We did the turnip carving jack o lantern thing too.

I certainly has ramped up in recent years though with fancy dresses and plastic tat. I think the biggest change though is the adult involvement whereas it just used to be solely for kids.

My friend at work throws a huge bonfire in the woods and invites her friends and neighbours and they decorate it with skeletons and stuff. It's amazing the effort that goes into it.

SpringHeeledJack · 27/10/2010 13:12

when I was little Bonfire Night was the biggie- altho some kids did do turnip lanterns for Halloween

we used to have Mischief Night- this is in the north east- which was the night before bonfire night where it was considered perfectly ok (by under 18s, anyway) to go and vandalise your neighbours' property Hmm

so I suppose we didn't really need Halloween. Tho we might have considered it if we had known there were sweets involved...

FindingMymOOOOOOOOjo · 27/10/2010 13:12

YANBU - I think the Americanisim of it it the totally commericalisation - it's the new Easter/Christmas/New Year as far as the shops are concerned.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 27/10/2010 13:14

YANBU and YABU....it is now a meaningless excuse for commercial shite.

When I was little we would peel and bob apples and 'traditional' activities.

JenaiMwahHaHaHaaaaah · 27/10/2010 13:15

Thank you!

I posted about what a big thing it is where I live on the other thread. Shan't bore you with the details again, suffice to say it's a lot of fun and certainly not restricted to youngsters.

The impression I get from Google my extensive historical research is that trick or treating, turnip carving and so on has its origins in a few Ye Olde traditions from various regions that have merged and evolved over time - in part because of losing 11 days when we changed calendars. Or something.

CaurnieBred · 27/10/2010 13:15

I think being Scottish/Irish really helps with understanding and embracing the whole Hallowe'en thing. And we did it properly - you had to be scary (witch/ghoul/vampire) not just dressed up like anything you feel like (a la the USA). We had to tell a joke/dance/sing when we went round with our polly bags and would either get sweets or handfuls of monkey nuts (as nut allergies didn't seem to be an issue in 70s/early 80s). We always had some sort of Hallowe'en thing in school too. And we didn't say "trick or treat": it was something like "Sky is Blue, Grass is green; please help Hallowe'en."

But it must have been recognised in England in those days too in some way as I remember Blue Peter showing you how to carve a turnip!

I now live in London and my immediate neighbours just don't get it as it just didn't happen until recently, whereas I am happy to encourage DD to embrace the whole thing and pass down the traditions. How we worked it around our area last year was that if a house was displaying something of a Hallowe'en nature then we would call in; if it wasn't we left you alone.

Mumi · 27/10/2010 13:16

"But don't most people know that already and when they complain about it being an American import they are talking about the commercialism of halloween being an American import."

  • quite a lot of the same peope don't think to question the commercialisation of Christmas though.

lorelilee those traditions sound lovely :) Like the idea of having to come up with a bit more than shouting "trick or treat"!

JenaiMwahHaHaHaaaaah · 27/10/2010 13:17

Posie - don't people do bobbing apples round your way any more?

We still do! And we're not that far away.

Original poster
MaimAndKilloki · 27/10/2010 13:18

Us and our neighbours are going all out for Hallowe'en this year, got all sorts planned for kids and adults alike. Will be quite sad if I don't see any trick or treaters. :(

OP posts:
Mowiol · 27/10/2010 13:19

lorelilee - yes, it was always "guising" up here, not trick or treating (that's the bit that annoys me) and you only got sweets or nuts if you performed a party piece.

I always get disproportionately irritated by the importing of American nonsense - do not get me started on Proms (for primary school even - what the hell is that all about!!).

Original poster
MaimAndKilloki · 27/10/2010 13:19

It's not a Hallowe'en party without bobbing apples surely? (PS. bobbing apples even more fun when it's not a kids party - especially bobbing apples in punch Grin)

OP posts:
PaisleyPumpkin · 27/10/2010 13:20

I don't think there's a lot of point being too precious about the origins of some festivals. They change over time and as people move around the Earth different traditions get adopted. It gets so blurred it's hard to know what came from where. Like the Pagan christmas celebrations.
I like having carved harvest pumpkins from America and door to door begging from here.
I think we just need to take what we want from it all and celebrate things we want to celebrate how we each want to.

HowlingAtTheStripeyMoon · 27/10/2010 13:21

We had halloween parties and did trick or treating in the 70s in West London. Nothing new there.