to think that the NHS could learn from private helathcare?? (mosschops fantastic experience)

[mosschops30]

I know people will say its about money ....BUT ....

after being butchered by the NHS, by being subjected to what amounts to abuse by some power hungry midwife and being constantly ignored by people, but getting PTSD and having therapy and oodles of support from my Gynae I plucked up the courage to have a hysteroscopy and mirena under GA.

Those of you that are familiar with the story will know how hard it was for me to make that decision, and how terrified I was about being a patient again.

So in I went yesterday and it all worked perfectly I was shown to my room, then my nurse introduced herself, my anaesthetist came to see me, explained what he was going to use, I asked if I had to be intubated and he said he could manage my airway if I prefered, which I did (he knew about the PTSD but said he wouldnt mention anything on the day). Then my consultant came to see me, did consent form and then i walked down to theatre with dh, my nurse and theatre nurse (in my robe and slippers provided lol funny to me as an NHS worker).
The anaesthetic was so quick I didnt have time to escape (all part of the plan he told me later), cannula was in and drugs given within 60 seconds I would say. Then I woke up in recovery about half hour later.

Now I know the room was clean, and I had my own bathroon, the menu and food was lovely, I loved the flat screen tv and robe and slippers.

But most of all I liked that everyone did what they said they were going to do, no one had forgotten how scared I was, no one questioned why dh was there with me, my nurse was constantly checking my pain levels and had no problems in getting drugs signed and administered within minutes. It was all stuff that should be done all the time by every hospital.
Every member of staff who looked after me yesterday played a huge part in my recovery (mentally and physically) they have restored my faith in the medical and nursing professions.

It was perfect

arses I think that is also true. The staff when dh was in were very obviously overworked on some days, but not all and yet the same level of care was given.

Saying that it was just one experience during a very difficult time for the hospital. Not that we gave a shit about that at the time.

In that case as you feel passionately about communication perhaps that is something you can take back to work? Perhaps advocate yourself as a clinical champion? Especially as your patients are also very high risk of ptsd. (and their relatives)

As the OP has mentioned that she has suffered PTSD and has had therapy over treatment she previously received, do people really think that it is appropriate to start chipping away and over analysing what the OP has said?

Can we not just be pleased that she has taken a huge leap of faith and come through it ok?

I know of two people who had cancer and were chucked back into the NHS once they had used their allowance in their private medical polices.

Ilike in fairness the majority of posters have said that they are pleased that her experience was a good one.

Also the OP is a regular poster - if she didn't want a debate then a thread in chat would have been far more sensible but to dress up a controversial statement in the way in which she did was, IMO, asking for the quite fair responses which she has received.

I do appreciate that communication takes time. As do thorough examinations and taking a proper clinical history. I have 10 minute appointments, in a surgery that is nearly always fully booked with extra people turning up, occasional emergencies AND I am expected to talk to people about blood/ urine results over the phone in between times! It's not always easy, but I try to make sure that each client feels that I have really listened to them, given their animal a thorough exam and explained treatment options. I'm not saying I am perfect every time, but I don't think it's something that can't be aimed for- or for the patient/ client to expect

runner good post . My EMCS wasnt really an EMCS, just an unplanned CS.. What happened after that should never happen to anyone without other risk factors. They cannot use the 'emergency' as a cover for bad practice.

One point also overlooked is the simple fact that the vast majority of 'clients' who can afford private care are by definition going to be a) more educated, b) have a more motivated stake in their own health care (cash does focus the mind), c) be elective thus perhaps calmer and more prepared and d) be attending a facility which has carefully researched and targeted what floats their clients' boats (thick carpets, artwork etc etc). By and large, there will be broad similarities of expectation amongst the clientele.

The NHS treats whatever comes through the door. Many of my patients frankly would feel threatened, intimidated and out of their depth if I were to sit them down and explain EXACTLY what we were doing and why (as well as terrify them if I were to throw the cold hard 'risk of this killing you' statistics at them!)- many just do not actually want to know. I have had 'Don't give me that sht, just get on wiv the scan'. I answer every question asked of me and attempt to do so at a level that the particular patient can understand, as judged by myself following our interaction to date. Many will still walk out feeling 'mis- or un-communicated with' as I wasn't able to tell them whether it was cancer or not! It is not at all unusual to follow a patient back to the waiting room, one to whom you explained in detail what you were going to do and why- to hear them say to their companion 'They didn't say nuffin' to me'.. 'Wot?' I ask! The simple fact is they didn't have the background knowledge or perhaps even intellect to understand what was* said, and they chose not to read the information sheet that was sent to them with their appointment. That's all fine but to walk away claiming you 'weren't told nuffin' is a bit unfair!

The NHS simply doesn't have the time or money to pitch every nuance of understanding at every patient.

"communication, takes time which ultimately costs money"

I work in a completely unrelated profession, but one where communication is EVERYTHING. It is possible to be both effective and succinct in your communication, just as it it is possible to waffle for ages and communicate very little. I have recently used a private health provider after a previous experience with the NHS went badly wrong when their communication was not effective, so I can appreciate where Mosschops is coming from.

Mosschops, again, given what you've obviously been through I am delighted that you have found medical care you can trust, so my intention in highlighting the cost of good communication is not to negate your experience which sounds like it was about a hell of a lot more than poor communication.

However, I still wanted to point out the cost of communication. Even little things like reading an admissions form thoroughly, adequate time to explain procedures at the bedside, remembering your name etc are all helped by overall work pressures and time.

I think the majority of NHS workers try their hardest to communicate to the best of their ability. Of course there are still the perverse, the power-hungry, the rude and the obnoxious and it's a shame they aren't brought to account more than they are. That much the NHS could learn..

I just don't think adequate time is allowed for communication and planning in most NHS care settings. This can really reduce the quality of general care for patients.

Okay then, backinthebox, explain 15 different procedures to 15 frightened patients in 15 minutes, allowing time for questions?

It's not about being waffly, you know.

here is a nice thread and the rest of you can fight amongst yourselves, this is a true representation of an AIBU thread, you all jump on some imaginary bandwagon, usually Id be up for the ride but Im not 24hrs post GA and would just like sum

My Dad died of cancer earlier this year in an NHS hospital and I cannot praise his care highly enough, great caring nurses and an excellent doctor who he saw throughout his 18 months of treatment.

Private is great for the non life threatening things and to catch anything early, I have a full "MOT" every year which I pay for myself as I dont have private care.

I have worked in both private and NHS hospitals as a nurse and there are pro's and cons to both.

Each nurse has less patients in private - 5 patients compared to the 16 patients in NHS (general surgical ward).

But at night there is only 1 junior doctor at the private hospital. In the NHS, if a patient deteriorates I can have a team of doctors on hand immediately.

I think private is fine for small procedures, but I would not be happy having a large operation in a private hospital.

Each to their own I suppose.

Like Moss, I had a hysteroscopy (but on NHS). My care was really good, everything explained to me. But thats how it should be with a planned procedure.

Hope you feel better soon Moss.

Then don't post inflammatory threads in AIBU,ffs.

Enjoy your recovery, hope all proceeds satisfactorily.

arses, turning your question on it's head - if more effective use of communication had been made in my (and possibly Mosschops') labours and births, the NHS staff involved could have saved themselves and their colleagues a whole lot of time, money and effort in the old 'picking up the pieces' stage of our births and the aftermaths. In my case, a few brief sentences which WOULD have only taken one minute from one midwife to the next as they handed over shifts could have saved me from filling a HDU bed for 5 days and my child from filling a SCBU bed for 3 days. Communication is not always just between patient and HCP. It can be between HCPs, and it can be crucial to success. However it is often the case that people who are poor communicators in one area are still poor in other areas.

Interestingly, the monumental fuck-up that was birth no.1 meant that I benefitted from immense amounts of communication from NHS staff during pregnancy no.2. Way more than I expected or even needed. I would go so far as to say it was an ineffective use of their resources.

And, arses, why are the patients you mention scared? If you are talking about departments like A&E or cancer care then most patients will be scared. My experience of these departments is that they go above and beyond the call of duty to talk to their patients and each other. But when you are looking at many other departments the attitude of many patients is that it is an inconvenience, being there. In the case of maternity hospitals many women are excited to be there, only to have that excitement turned to fear perhaps by the way they are spoken to and dealt with.

I would say if an NHS doctor or nurse had only 15 minutes to speak to 15 patients something has gone very wrong in the department, or it should be the subject of a national scandal.

Glad it all went well.
regarding staff ability, at my local private hospital, majority of staff (with exception of nurses) consultants, technicians etc are NHS staff who work privately in same time (my husband, is a cardiac technican for example) so staff should have same level of knowledge. That said husband recently went on an Advanced Life support skills course - a mixture of NHS and private staff. He was horrified by lack of knowledge and skills of some of the private nurses (not form local hospital). I say this to demonstrate good/bad staff are working in both areas.

Re communication (I work in maternity), this is indeed key to good care, however, with best intentions in world this may not always happen. Eg you need to speak to Dr - not available, bleep them - they are in theatre, another patient needs your help, answer visitors queries etc by which time Dr may have been on ward but missed you as you were busy etc. Ultimately I believe a lot of the NHS's problems could be solved by more "front line" staffing, however this is unlikely to happen - very competent student midwives are qualifying but with no jobs to go to, meanwhile maternity units are running on minimal staffing levels

nhs has to learn from something. too many nhs midwives are lazy and postively evil in my experience.

I don't believe that in "many other departments" the attitude to patients is that they are an inconvenience.

Where's your evidence for this? There are many of us who have had good maternity experiences with reference to communication, and as above, I exclude those experiences brought about by "professionals" who are mad, bad and dangerous to know. Our experiences don't prove that all professional communicate well in maternity departments any more than yours proves that A and E and cancer wards have better staff than labour wards.

Of course, I don't really know the timescales for explanations in busy departments, but I strongly suspect that much of what doesn't get done in terms of healthcare communication is resource-led and that timescales are very tight e.g. a few minutes per patient. I have very rarely seen a HCP waffle: if anything, they are likely to be abrupt and not take much time due to the constraints upon them.

When you say that if x had just taken a few minutes to do y then z wouldn't have happened, it needs to be in the context of everything happening at that moment in time that might have impinged upon communication of that message. How many patients were there? How long had the staff been on shift? Were there any emergencies happening? I am not excusing negligence or poor staff skills here because that's a different story, but if you halve a caseload and have staff working the same hours, it stands to reason that they do have longer to dot i's and cross t's. The potential for human error is much greater where resources are stretched.

I have seen horrendous examples of communication in the NHS: however, I have also seen people make minor errors because they are rushing around like blue-arsed flies that cause significant distress and potentially damage to patients.

I had a shit first experience on the NHS. My second NHS birth was great, though. The food was crap, but everything else was 'private care' standards.

It's the luck of the draw. isn't it? But it certainly is possible to deliver that standard of care on the NHS. It costs, yes, but it is possible.

I'm so glad it went well Mosschops, and I know what you mean. Communication with your patient costs nothing, and a bit of compassion makes a huge difference.

I've worked for and with the NHS my whole working life, but until this summer had not had cause to use its services in a serious, long term way. It's been interesting to say the least

mosschops30, I've only skimmed the thread, because all I wanted to say is that I recall your last post about your DH being allowed in while they put you under, and I'm really, really pleased that it all went so well for you. :)

I'll read the rest of it now...

I have both worked for the NHS and been a patient, in several different settings. I have been an inpatient in three different hospitals, one of those on four different occasions, and have been treated by many different departments and on many different wards. Going on my experience, I would have to say that the majority of staff do not communicate well. Furthermore, of those staff, I would say that the majority communicate poorly not because of time or resource constraints, but because they simply do not imagine it's required, or value it as part of the work of treatment. This is systemic and needs to be challenged and addressed at a very high level. Believe me when I say I can give plenty of specific examples, too.

I'm a GP. Some years ago as a junior hospital Dr I did a RMO (resident medical officer) post at a private hospital for 6 months. What I saw ensured that neither I, nor anyone I care about will ever have treatment in a private hospital for anyhting important; possibly private treatment (sometimes worthwhile when the option is long waiting lists), but in an NHS hospital with very experienced NHS Drs for when it all goes wrong!

Private medicine is unsurpassed for nice carpets, home-from-home facilities like TV etc, and service with a smile. But the basic medical and nursing care is lacking.

I had a similarly great experience on the NHS (and continue too). However, that is in cutting edge/experimental neurosurgery. For other aspects (e.g. dentistry/oral surgery), I would love to be able to access private, but they don't want me...