to lie on this form when I get to the questions about mental health?

[bintofbohemia]

I need to register with a recruitment agency who need me to fill in a form which wants to know, amongst other things, whether I have ever suffered from anxiety and depression.

I came off a 6 month course of anti depressants in January after being diagnosed with PND - although actually it could have been more to do with the fact that I just hadn't slept for more than an hour at a time in over ten months (not an exaggeration) and also had an awful lot of family problems.

I also had depression ten years ago after leaving uni, struggling to get a job, being cheated on by my boyfriend and losing my grandmother.

I don't see why I have to declare these things, as they were both reactions to fairly extreme situations which I don't forsee happening in the near future (hopefully!) - but lets face it, who's going to employ someone like me if I'm honest about this? I just find it intrusive, possibly even discriminatory and am tempted not to mention it. They would never be able to verify it anyway unless my doctor breached confidentiality rules, surely?

IABU?

BoB, any chance you can clarify exactly what kind of form it was, as I think it makes a difference.

I suffered from severe bouts of depression in the past and was at one point (wrongly) diagnosed with BiPolar and then diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I was always honest about it on Occupational Health forms and because the NHS Trusts that I have worked for have had excellent OH departments, it never impeded me getting a job. (although I did have an admin post,and had to go for regular 'check ups' to make sure I was managing okay)

OH screening is usually undertaken separately from the interview process and will only impede you if the OH dept feels that your mental illness will genuinely interfere in you doing the job.

This is how it should work, and I was very lucky in that I had great employers who recognised that employment was one great route to re-establishing a normal life, and it allowed me the space to work and support myself while in recovery (took about 10 yrs all told).

I'm not sure how it works in the Private Sector, or with Agencies. Is this a separate OH form? Have they assured you it is confidential and clarified who will have access to it?

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with declaring Mental Illness if appropriate safeguards are in place (as they should be for any confidential information).

And I agree that hiding mental illness just reinforces the stigma - if only everyone was able or in a position to be honest, the stigma would die out more quickly and I hope that one day we will look back as a society and regard our current attitudes to MH as outdated and ignorant.

However, OP, having said all that, I do completely understand how you feel. It is very scary in this current climatev to feel 'safe' being open about MH. But I will say that in my case, overall, more people have reacted positively than not.

I understand the argument that not mentioning it (ie hiding it) contributes to the stigmatisation of depression, but I still wouldn't mention it to an agency.

I really don't think that (in this particular case) it compares to lying about a qualification.

If you had realised when you were struggling with depression, that if you sought help from your GP, you would have to mention to future employers - would you have tried to struggle on alone instead?

Questions like this on recruitment forms could lead us in this direction - I personally would think very carefully about seeking help for minor mental issues (although obviously I would for something serious that would affect my family) as I would worry about having to disclose it at some point in the future.

Depending on the form you may be able to get away with it with regard to a recruitment agency. For a permanent job, you should include the info once the position has been offered and you are completing the Occupational Health, or medical questionnaire. Once the job has been offered it cannot legally be withdrawn on the basis of MH - that is discrimination and you can sue for damages. However, if you take up the post and then suffer another bout of depression and are referred to OH a requirement of occupational sick pay is likely that you co-operate with a request for a medical report. If when the medical report arrives it sheds light on the fact that you lied at the clearance stage you are then likely to lose all occupational sick pay and be at risk of dismissal.

Your need to think quite carefully about the potential impact of your actions here.

I wouldn't lie. I would leave blank or write something like 'nothing relevant to the position I am applying for'. Because you're right, how does PPD relate to being a copywriter? And I'm not sure they're not breaching discrimination laws by asking the question.

But would it ever be possible to know, let alone prove, that a job was NOT offered due to concerns about mental health?

That's the other side of the coin - although Cloudbase's post is encouraging about how it should actually work in practice.

What about a small company without a separate OH department though, just one person reading application forms?

Do not mention it. The idea that you could be 'done for fraud' is just ridiculous. No one is going to sue you or prosecute you if you leave this info off.

1.It is confidential medical information. They have no 'right' to it;
2.It will in all probability be used against you - that is why they are asking;

1. It's in the past;
2. Unemployment rates could be about to get a lot worse.

Good luck with the job search!

Cloudbase you had a great experience but I don't think working for an NHS trust is typical. The private sector is generally a lot more hard-headed...

Nomedoit. Any organisation that runs an occupational sick pay scheme does have a right to the information and may be legally obliged to make statutory adjustments for anyone with a disability under the DDA.

If the application form has a statement along the lines of "if you fail to disclose any information either on the application form or as part of the pre-employment clearance process, it may lead to your dismissal" then I would tread very carefully.

I agree with nomedoit - I have always lied on forms (not just for agencies but also when starting jobs) and never been found out. They have no right to access your medical records unless you specifically give them permission and I'm afraid that is the sort of thing that agencies will use to discriminate against someone.

You are not going to get done for fraud - it is in no way equivalent to making up qualifications.

This is the thing; I have been really really lucky overall. Mind you, one individual manager tried to edge me out of her department when she discovered (from badgering me on sick leave)about why I was off. I decided to tell her, and as soon as I came back to work she made my life hell. I was too fragile at the time to deal with it, but if she had tried anything like that when I was strong enough, she would have been toast! Bullies everywhere I'm afraid.

I would like to know how it works in the private sector and in agencies, hence wondering about the form that contained the question.

I think (although I am not a lawyer so don't take my word for it) that this is less about potentially discriminating against you and more about your employers protecting themselves. See, they could be found liable for any serious mental health issues you have as a result of working for them. If they know of a pre-existing or similar previous condition, they have a duty of care to you not to put you in any position or situation where that condition might be re-triggered or made worse.

If you declare mental health issues which are then made worse by your work environment, your employers could be found negligent if you wanted to sue for comp. However, if you don't declare them, your employers can't be held as negligible because they didn't know.

It might also impact their insurance.

It's legal due dilligence on their part but I agree there is a potential for 'off the record' discrimination.

(Caveat: I am not an employment lawyer, this is just stuff I remember from my degree, which I did quite a long time ago!)

Lucie as a parent how would you know X teacher has depression?

If I was applying for a public sector role I would declare it, but not otherwise and especially not just on some random form for a recruitment agency where God knows who could get hold of the information.

Cloudbase sadly in the private sector there is little or no tolerance for any MH issues. There is no way on earth that I would put my PND on any application form that had to be completed prior to receiving a written job offer. Company medicals that may have to be completed following a job offer are a different thing.

I find it really odd that a recruitment agency are asking this question tbh. It is none of their fucking business, they are just looking for ways to thin out applicants IMO.

This should help you here

As I understand it you are fine. No need to declare and indeed unlawful of them to ask.

Good luck with the job search.

it is now illegal to ask questions about illness/sick BEFORE being offered a job...very recent legislation

Relevant bit from guidance on the Equality Act 2010:

"Employers will generally no longer be allowed
to ask questions about health or disability before they offer you a job or before they include you in a pool of people to be offered a job when a vacancy arises. However, they can ask you such questions if they have a good reason. (see the workplace guidance for more details)."

They should not be asking the question.

I would lie.

psammyad
Questions like this on recruitment forms could lead us in this direction - I personally would think very carefully about seeking help for minor mental issues (although obviously I would for something serious that would affect my family) as I would worry about having to disclose it at some point in the future.

I was told by careers dept not to have tests done to see if I had dyslexia as I would have to declare it on application forms and it would not go down well.

I did find out as I thought an explanation, better understanding and extra time in exams would be useful.

The only time it ever came up it did not go down well despite me having a good degree from a good university and post graduate qualification and relevant work experience.

OP - I would not lie as such - I'd leave it blank and if they ask - unlikely -say something like you have no medical conditions that prevent you working.

I got diagnosed with depression a week after starting one job, the boss then told me that he'd never have hired me had he known.

I want to know, wrt the new discrimination laws, how can you prove you have been turned down for a job due to disability? Most places aren't stupid enough to say that's why they've turned you down. All they'll say is that there is someone more suitable, can't see it'll make the blind bit of difference.

Am shocked at all those telling you to decalre it. shocked at how naieve they are. we all know that it shouldn't be stigmatised, but IT SO IS. Do not write anything in the box. I never tell anyone I have been a diabetic for 35 years. up until a few weeks ago, it has never affected my work. But you would never give this info. especially not to some agency.

I'd just write 'n/a' in the box.
Because it is not applicable and it is not appropriate to even ask, and shortly, it will be unlawful to do so - and quite right too.

From the link kindly provided upthread ( by Colourful)

'Disability

To tackle the stigma too often faced by job-seekers with disabilities, it will now be unlawful to face invasive questions about disability and health before the job offer stage in a recruitment process (unless intrinsically necessary for the role). This is particularly important for those with mental health or other conditions involving social stigma, such as HIV or Aids. The very fact of having to decide whether to disclose his or her condition, or to lie on an application form, can form a stumbling block for an individual at the outset of the recruitment process.

After the job-offer stage, an employer can ask these questions, in order to consider whether any specific adaptations will be necessary. However, if an individual finds that his or her job offer is withdrawn after such a disclosure, he or she will have a claim and the employer will have to prove that this was not due to discrimination (rather than the other way round). '

I have had 6 bouts of depression over the last 20 years. I have not hidden my illness from any employer at any time, and it has never been an issue.

But an Agency is a different kettle of fish, why on earth would they need to know anything about a person's medical history? I would query this, or just not answer the questions. I wouldn't lie though.

IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR THEM TO ASK (EQUALITY ACT 2010, SEE BELOW/ABOVE).

YOU ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO DECLARE IT AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE ASKING.

NO NEED TO LIE....

(Sorry about shouty caps but the answer is here...)

It's not worth the grief. Extra stress of covering stuff up can't be good 4 u. Honesty may be the best policy especially since extreme reasons for 'mental health issues'. Employer should see that an open and honest employee is a valuable one. A whiter than white more perfect than possible application is frankly suspicious! Also, if in the future you suffer a 'blip' you are more likely to have an understanding employer if you've be open to start with. It's so that in this day and age mental health still has such a taboo. If more people were honest (one in three women affected at some point) maybe it would be easier. Sorry if this sounds idealistic.