to think the 'F' word is one we should be proud of......

[PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker]

Thanks to MN, especially dittany, Lenin, BoF and Anyfucker, I have been made aware of my casual attitude to misogyny. This short journey in my reclaiming my old values recently lead me to the London Feminist Network Conference on Saturday. And Oh my God it is one of the most inspirational things I've ever done.

Having money and being relatively attractive in my younger days I was mislead into thinking that being a feminist was irrelevant, after all we had a female PM and then 'girl power' where we were fooled into thinking with the right body shape and a little wit the world was our oyster (farm).

My husband's and friends' response to my recent activities have ranged from being mystified to mockery, from resentment to full on stereotypical prejudice. I am alarmed that barely any of my friends think feminism is relevant.

Am I being unreasonable to reclaim the word feminist to mean a person that wants to rid the world of gender prejudiced?

So it's purely the term feminism you object to?

If everyone called themselves "anti-sexists" you'd be comfortable with that?

I don't agree that feminism is solely gynocentric. I think sexism that limits women limits us all, including men. It's so reductive and unfair.

Why is being against all kinds of racism preferable or in some way less biased than being against all kinds of sexism (towards men and women)?

Feminism is not just about women in developed countries. At the feminist conference on Saturday you could have listened to accounts from women from Iran, Congo, Ethiopia, Honduras etc - you could have seen that whatever the individual struggles facing those countries, the common factor is women being kept down, whether through rape or through compulsory hijab-wearing or through the restriction of access to birth control etc etc etc.

That's the problem HS. The term's already been taken and means something quite specific IMO.

Also feminism isn't just about women in developed nations. It's an international movement.

No it doesn't SH.

To assert that it's not a gender issue is just plain contrariness.

1 in 4 women get raped or sexually assaulted in this country. Do you think 1 in 4 men do? Do you think that of the men who get raped, between 60-85% don't report it because they know they won't be believed? Do you think there is a 94% non-conviction rate for male rape victims? Do you think men are regularly threatend with rape or sexual assault and that they allow the fear of it to constrict their actions and to confine their lives?

I think it is flippancy to pretend that rape and sexual assault are not gendered crimes. You'll be telling us that racism is just as big an issue for white people next.

Either you are being very very dishonest, or you simply don't understand the arguments. I believe that several people have tried to explain them to you in good faith several times on several different threads, so I conclude that you're not really listening.

What does it matter where we're from? When one woman is being hurt or killed because of her sex, it hurts all women.

But the fact that it's female focused is not a problem for humanity. We are half of humanity and we live with the other half, and we bring up and nurture all of humanity. There really is no division between the interests of men and women, unless you want one sex to be priviledged over the other. Which feminists don't, the idea that they do is a mysogynist media notion, which is assiduously promoted because the media are interested in retaining male privilege.

And no, male privilege doesn't mean all males are privileged, any more than white privilege means all white people are priviledged, or class privilege means that posh people are never unhappy. (How the hell do you spell privilege btw, can't be bothered to check it)

rape is not a specific gender issue.both male,female suffer rape.cannot denigrate another person experience by citing statistics about rate/frequency

one man,one woman,raped or abused is one individual too many.

the dreadful case of the servant Bandar Abdulaziz murdered by saudi prince was vile and abhorrent.and saying but statistically more women suffer is not a legitimate response.it isn't a who has suffered most competition

the psychological and pshically impact of years of abuse weas so bad that Bandar Abdulaziz didnt fight back/too worn down

It is absolute nonsense to assert that rape is not a gender issue. It completely ignores the fact that most rape victims are women and nearly all rape perpetrators are men. It also ignores the fact that men do not have their lives and behaviour and psychology shaped by the consciousness of rape and the fear of rape and women do.

Honestly, it's like saying that equal pay isn't a gender issue. In a parallel universe perhaps. If rape weren't a gender issue, do you think that there would be a culture of disbelieving victims?

Citing statistics which clearly demonstrate that rape is a gender issue, does not denigrate any rape victim's experience.

my life isnt shaped by fear,nor can you speak for all women.you may wish to but you cant. this notion of a gender habitually routinely disempowered is one i dont recognise.

one act of violence against anyone is an act too many.but to diminish someone else male by countering oh happens more to women is galling

as i said isnt a who gets hurt most statistically frequently competition

By "anti-sexism" I mean much the same as anti-racism and anti-homophobia. To take efforts to discourage discrimination on the basis of sex and to encourage equality regardless of sex.

So, for example, I won't quietly accept sexist jokes from my friends just as I won't quietly accept racist ones. I don't see a fundamental difference between being anti-racist and anti-sexist. And anti-sexism seems the same to me as feminism but I don't want to just assume that in case I'm missing something important.

It is not diminishing anyone by stating the bleedin' obvious.

Are you people insisting that rape is not a gender issue, also going to tell us that racism is equally a problem for white people, because sometimes white people get beaten up by racist black people?

Snorbs, I'm not sure what the difference between feminism and anti-sexism is either. At a guess, feminism implies a culture of valuing women as full human beings, whereas anti-sexism implies a reactive idea, reacting against sexism in society. But I'm happy to be corrected by someone who has a more thoroughly thought out idea on this.

yes it is,the obvious inference is happens more to women.so women suffer more.men dont experience so much abuse,so how dare draw a comparison

one heinous act against a man,woman,child is one act too many.

These aren't solely govt figures, soem are police figures, some are BMRB figures (the BCS), which is considered more reliable than Home Office stats.

If you don't believe the figures, what do you believe? Because most people would be surprised to find that any males at all are subjected to DV or raped, so I think if you want your arguments to have any credibility, you need to believe the figures actually, they're on your side.

Anyway it's v. late so I'm off to bed now, will doubtless return to this tomorrow at some point. Good night.

im shocked at habitual inference of so what? us women suffer more and life in fear (apparently). the global assumption of speaking for all

individual suffering cant be overlooked or diminished if perpetrated against any minority.and yes violence perpetrated against male is minority.doesn't mean is insignificant