To think Margaret Thatcher was right?

[Lauriefairycake]

when she said 'divide and rule'.

The new Tory policies have caused what feels like the whole of mumsnet to turn on each other.

Her words have been successful - get everyone; poor, working poor, working class and middle class to turn on each other.

Much easier to rule then.

I'm sorry for starting yet another thread but since the Con-Libs entered government this place has got harder and harder to be around.

There is this horrible air of 'those benefit claimants will get what's coming to them' pervading the board.

It's increasingly harder to look at what is really going on in people's lives and instead just categorising them.

How about we stop turning on each other?

I agree totally. I hate all this benefit bashing that seems to be going on just now. After all, aren't we all just one redundancy away from claiming benefits? Qualifications and work experience are no protection.

I think it is the case of those who have never experience being a benefit claimnat have no idea about it.

We are currently on state benefits due to redundancies and lack of work to be found. You don't get much and you have to cut everything right back. It's very easy to go under and loose everything; we would have if it were not for the generosity of family to help us eg: car needed a service £350 which my Mum paid as we did not have the cash. We need a car to get the kids to and from school and to go for job interviews as the public transport is pants. We used to ear aroudn £70,000 between us in what would be traditionally know as blue collar middle class jobs, we had some savings which we lived off until they ran out.

So as you point out som on MN has said 'we will get what's coming to us' do they mean us? Who have paid into the system since we left school and Uni and have need the help in the last 10 months, what exactly are we going to get?

I have avoided this board for a while because of exactly what you point out. It is very easy for some to sit in their ivory tower looking down their noses at people like us, but we are all just a few months of missing pay and savings away from going under if neither of you has a job, and before anyone asks we have looked and looked and our house had been on the market for 3 months with zero interest.

People have said on this board 'I would get a job a Tesco is I had too' Really? Have you tried? ZERO jobs at Tesco, Sainsburys, John Lewis, M&S etc in my region and I look every week.

It is simply not a black and white issue, some people take the piss out of the system and others need it for their lifeline to eat and keep a roof over their heads.

To stop turning on each other, people should stop presuming and being so hideously narrow mindedly judgemental.

Much as I hate the Tories, it's actually the fault of the Rebublicans in the US deregulating the banking industry and greedy gits filling their pockets. Not the Tories, or Labour or the Lib Dems. Hate Labour getting blamed, hate the Tories getting all the blame for cuts. Let's blame George Bush and his cronies. I didn't vote for them!

Over the last 2 days I've seen posters (benefit claimants - with whom I tried to see their point) lash out at e.g. pensioners. That was exactly where they lost all credibility in my eyes.

I thought that divide and rule was actually down to Machiavelli?

You can blame Mrs T for somethings but not everything!

Katey - it was actually Clinton that deregulated lending to the sub-prime market, not Bush, so blame the Democrats please.

Equally, we get the Higher rate taxpayers should pay more on here too, which is just as unpleasant when we have a pay freeze, an NI rise and and an extension of the 40% rate band coming soon. We will be without losing the cb quite yet about £2k per year worse off from next year, so the pain is shared believe me.

YANBU.

But I don't want to blame Clinton. So I won't la la la. You can't make me.

Clinton believed in the democratic dream, he wanted the poor to achieve home ownership to make their lives fairer.

These loans were rubber-stamped without due care being taken regarding proof of income. These people defaulted in large numbers.

The loans were repackaged, bundled and sold on Causing huge deficits for the banks...........who then needed bailing out. Over simplistic?

Clinton deregulated the banks and mortgage markets because the Labour government was doing the same thing over here already, making the British markets more attractive to American investors than the American ones.

So it's the fault of Labour and the Democrats, which surprises me not one jot and please me immensely.

So Margaret Thatcher was responsible for ruining my life in the 80s, and now she's responsible for ruining my enjoyment of the 21st century as well.

is there nothing that woman won't stoop to?

It does make me cross whwn we get a simplistic Left=nice, Right=nasty.
It's dead easy to be the 'nice' party - you just give away (other peoples')money. Then the shit hits the fan ans someone else has to sort out the mess. Being grown-up and responsible about money is always seen as 'nasty'.
I sometimes wish that Labour had won the last election so that, for once, they would have to clear up the mess that they created. Except that they wouldn't have done it - they would put off the hard decisions until forever.

I was going to come on and say you will NEVER get mumsnet to think Mrs Thatcher was right about anything, but I now see that you didn't really mean it.

I agree with SWC.

And also with whoever said that Labour can't be for cuts in general but against all of them in particular.

They need to start telling us properly what we should be cutting instead, or lose even more credibility as the opposition party.

I agree Laurie - the boards have a really nasty air about them lately :(

I agree HC.

I'd really like to see their alternative spending and defence reviews. As GO said this week if you are going to criticise Plan A you need to have a Plan B. Otherwise shut up.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a Labour government have never left the country in a good financial state. The Conservatives then have to sort out the mess and get a reputation for all sorts of dreadful things.

You're not wrong HG. People vote in Labour governments when the social or economic weather tells them they can "afford" to i.e. 1945, 1997.

The country repents at leisure.

To be honest, the arrival of the coalition has had little impact on how people feel.

They were thinking all these things and much worse before and during the election.

Canvassing on door steps during local elections told me that these feelings of unease were deeply rooted. Especially among the working classes.

It is only now that people are being encouraged to voice thier opinions.

I'd say the criticism goes both ways. Some on benefits get slated unfairly on here but there is just as much if not more criticism (sometimes verging oh hate) of those more comfortable off, especially those paying the higher tax brackets as greedy fuckers who should shut up and just pay more taxes. It's always ok to say how poor you are and that you claim benefits but there is usually silence from the higher earners as they know anything they say will be jumped on and attacked. Also they probably see it as bad taste to 'boast' when they see that others have it really bad. That's what I've deduced from Mn anyway.

I agree Fastedwina. Completely.

and the gap between the richest and the poorest grows and grows. I wish it was more generally accepted that a lot of people on low and middle incomes work at least as hard as people on high incomes. A lot of the "I'm alright Jack"ishness might disappear then.

I agree Lauriefairycake. I've been quite shocked and disheartened by some of the comments that have been posted on some of the threads about the cuts.

There seems to be a shocking lack of compassion for the poorest and most vulnerable in society and a willingness to accept the idea that the the poorest in society should bear the brunt of the cuts.

As someone else said, we're all just one redundancy away from being on benefits.

i know that many lower/middle earners work very hard, for me i think my sympathies lie most with the working poor (anyone that works should be able to expect a reasonable standard of living though what that standard is is open to opinion) and those with disabilities and those caring for children/partners with disabilities. My husband is a higher earner (though not sure on MN what is considered a high earner) but he did pay a price for that - studied while working, moving from family and friends to work up the ladder, has to travel away a lot, works long hours (weekends, evenings etc, be contactable on holiday etc) and has a lot of responsibility and will be left holding the can if anything goes wrong. I definitely couldn't do his job and the majority couldn't as well.