To be furious by the school's attitude to this

[wotnochocs]

DS school have booked a trip during school day which is going to cost £21 per child.
It is not a trip he even particularly wants to go on, and I certainly don't want to pay for.I have explained to the school that DH is self employed and we are feeling the pinch.The teacher yesterday called out the names ofthe children who haven't paid yet and said if they didn't bring the money in tomorrow they would all be in detention.
I rang the school to complain about this and the HofD defended the teachers actions (!)and said that he would speak to the bursar to see if the school would contribute a third of the cost.I pointed out the fact that legally it was a voluntary contribution not a debt and I want my legal rights respected.i would make a small contribution and didn't expect the school to chase me or DS anymore.he was very put out and hung up.I was completely controlled and polite but firm in my position.
Feel very shakey and upset.Surely that is why the govt made such a law to protect people like us from this kind of crap

i have just paid £420 for dd1 (yr 8) to go to france for a week doing all sorts of activities and trips.

When dd2 (yr2) has trips at school the letters state that a voluntary contribution of x amount would be nice but if you don't contribute the whole class will not be able to go.

Obviously it isn't a voluntary contribution as if you don't pay the whole class will be affected.

It's blackmail at it's finest

BoffinBoy could have spent two nights at a PGL centre for about £150. The head sounds dreadful.

Boffin I admire what you say about family finances. I'm a little bit of a pushover - I never had the opportunity to do these things. Also as DP insists on not having any other DCs (the tightarse) I think ds should get some benefit out of being an only child. I hope I'm not raising an over-indulged nightmare [hgrin]

I can understand detention for not returning permission slip as it is really difficult to get some children to bring them on and if they don't have permission and alternative arrangements need to be made you need as much notice as possible. The teacher was am idiot with no sensitivity. I can't imagine treating a child like this

Yanbu. This is appalling

I'm afraid the emphasis on school trips is becoming ridiculous. Especially now when money is so tight. They are not essential.

And anyway I think it's humiliating to expect parents to go to the head and make a case for financial help. I bet some parents who really cannot afford it at all do without essentials rather than ask for help The reaction you have received wotnochocs is disgraceful.

I'm gobsmacked that a school could be contemplating a trip that costs £4000. Even if I had 18 months to save up it would still be more per month than I could afford to spare and Ds is at private school (is the school might assume if we can afford fees we must be able to afford that sort of amount). I don't understand how the HT can think that's okay.

They cannot demand the money - I am so shocked the teacher did this - it is Victorian! The head has also behaved appallingly- I would phone or write to the LA. No child should be disadvantged through not being able to pay is waht it always says on our letters home for trips.

I do think some schools are getting a bit crazy though - my DD State secondary wanted £30 for a one day trip to London (from Brighton) with a trip included to Tower bridge museum. I paid in the end but thought it was outrageously high. I asked why it was so high and was basically told it was to subsidise all the non payers!
I am on a much lower income than many at the school and do feel a bit peeved that I have to sacrifice to scrape together the money while others go for free. The same has also happened at primary level too according to a friend who is a teacher. She says they invariably as k for much more than the cost per child to make up for non payers of whom there are over half the class!as they would never ask a child not to attend a trip or come along to an activity.
I think everyone should have to contribute something no matter how small, not rely on conscientious parents to subsidise others.

I think being an ex-teacher, I am aware of the limited use of some of these trips. You are better off making the most of what is on your doorstep a lot of the time, for example tours around local businesses and factories, getting interesting local speakers in, and piling kids onto public transport and taking them to local museums. I used to take a whole school trip on the train from Waterloo to Windsor and make the townie kids go for a hike and a picnic in the Home Park. Many of them barely used their legs in normal life so this was a very cheap way of changing the scenery and teaching them different ways of doing things.

i thought legally that they are not allowed to price trips above cost.They cannot build an element in to cover non-payers (except of course teachers and accompanying adults who you couldn't expect to pay for themselves).Any shortfall has to be paid for by the school

A factor in this was that I get bus sick and I managed to get through 7 years of being a teacher without ever leading a trip that involved buses. The thought of the bus having to stop so teech could chunder into the undergrowth was a seriously motivating factor.

They frequently price above cost, for trips, uniforms, music lessons and all sorts of things.

I think a consumer programme ought to get involved.

You can get a group ticket from London to Brighton for £4 per person on the train.

Then visit a free museum, or at most one that costs a tenner.

Halve the price of the trip.

I would put money on the teacher actually saying that anyone who didn't hand the form in was going to get detention - not the money.

Dreadful. They shouldn't be doing the trip at all.

My theory is that it was the form as well. But nevertheless it all sounds a bit insensitive.

Just wanted to say as an English teacher I run this trip every year - it's called Poetry Live, it's a whole day not a half day and it's actually really good. It's not just the poets reading their poetry (although they do do some of that) - they also tell the kids what inspired them to write their poems and so on, and there's time for the kids to ask them questions. There's also two sessions from the principal GCSE examiner giving them advice on how to answer the questions. I think it's a really worthwhile trip and our kids always get loads out of it. It is a dear do though, no denying that - the tickets are £15 per student and then you have to add on the cost of transport, and coaches are really expensive. In addition, teachers can't legally be used to cover other teachers who are absent on a trip now (whether you agree with this or not is another matter, but it's the law) so schools have to pay for supply teachers to come in and cover the absent staff. This cost (usually around £150 per teacher per day) is sometimes also passed on to parents via cost of trips. In our school we have a fund for parents who can't afford a trip and I would hate it if one of our students didn't come because of money - we have always found the cash for those who can't afford it. Unfortunately, although a contribution is "voluntary", if the majority of parents don't pay it's not feasible for the school to cover the cost for everyone. I do think the way this teacher handled it was disgraceful though - detentions for those who haven't paid?! I might be tempted to issue a sanction to those pupils who hadn't let me know one way or the other if they were coming or not, just because otherwise I know a lot would leave the letter in the bottom of their bag, but no way would I give a detention for anyone who just hadn't paid the cash!

blimey - DS1's YR6 residential (week in Wales - doing alsorts of crazy actvities) is going to be £220 - his couple of nights down the road was £140 - £300 for a couple of nights down the road is !!!!

I know the senior school I hope DS's go to offers a World Challenge (I thnk?) thing to Ecuador - which is a couple of £1000's - , but none of them are compulsory - and for the Senior school one I know that they give a lot of advice and ideas on how to do fundraising for it. Several people I know have gone on it and loved it - it's 3 weeks, 2 (?) of which are spenting working in a charity and the other trekking in the rainforest.

For both schools children that don't get to go (for whatever reason)

a) aren't punsished for not sending the slip back (basic rule of thumb is - if you don't send the slip back they assume you're not going

b) they organise proper cover for those that are left behind.

We do pay for musuem type trips - but to be fair to them we have one musuem in town - that focusses totally on the history of the town.........and not much more.

dd1 has done pgl twice both times for a week and i paid £125 each time, why do the prices vary so much

"When dd2 (yr2) has trips at school the letters state that a voluntary contribution of x amount would be nice but if you don't contribute the whole class will not be able to go.

Obviously it isn't a voluntary contribution as if you don't pay the whole class will be affected.

It's blackmail at it's finest"

Its not blackmail, it's basic financial management. Of course the trip can't go ahead if voluntary contributions aren't made. The missing money will have to come from somewhere, it won't just materialise out of thin air.
I doubt the school can afford to fund every family who claims they can't pay.

However, threatening to put non-payers in detention is out of order. Yes, for not returning the permission slip or a letter explaining that they can't go but it for not paying.

I think the poets trip sounds fab, tbh. Although £21 is steep - particularly just for the morning. Ideally they ought to try and get something arranged for the afternoon, seeing as they'd be out and about already.

And of course the teacher has been an arse.

It would be a shame if schools stopped offering expensive (as opposed to outrageously overpriced) trips. Ours used to go skiing every year. I never went (we couldn't have afforded it) but there were others - ones who wouldn't have been able to go en famille but whose families' could stretch to paying for one child, once in a school career, who benefitted. I wouldn't want to see them losing out.

Well, I haven't got £25 ir £1295 spare this month, so they would all have to whistle for it. I think perhaps schools will have to rethink trips in the light of the recession. As one very good post has pointed out, there are loads of local trips, visits from local people and so on (although it is all sounding a bit League of Gentlemen, but you know what I mean). Going to see the real poet who wrote the poem you are studying is a lovely thing to do, AFTER you have paid your mortgage, bought expensive school shoes, food, heat, water and so on. And for some people in every year, even in what seem like affluent areas, they won't be able to pay, as they've just lost their job. Schools are going to have to start redefining necessities, just like the rest of us.

I actually have less of a problem with things like skiing and riding offered through school, as this is cheaper than families trying to do it by themselves, and can usually paid in instalments. But schools need to see these things for what they are - luxury items.

x-post there with lurcherlover.

I think the trip sounds ace.

The problem with World Challenge is that if you don't raise all the money, and the trip is cancelled, they keep what you have raised, and they require (or at least they do at ds's school) a DD on the parents bank account to ensure at least minimum payments are made.

Local can mean wherever a train can get to and back within a day on a cheap group ticket. So several counties away.

Seeker-
Definitely not permission slips
Wouldn't the HofD have said that to me then ? he told me it was a 'reasonable tactic' to use to concentrate the kids minds on getting their parents to remember to send in the cheques.Yeah that's fine if the kids are forgetting.Not fine if they can't afford it.The Hof D said they had already purchased the tickets because they had to move quickly.I think he is panicking that they are going to end up hundreds ofpounds out of pocket.
maybe the detention was an empty threat and they wouldn't have gone through with it, but the kids aren't to know that.