to be horrified that whilst cutting welfare budgets GO has increased ..

[DorisIsAPinkDragon]

The amount the UK pays to Europe.

I naively imagined that if all departments were being examined Europe would be included in this (i.e. if we haven't got the cash things HAVE to be renegoiated)and the budget to Europe should be cut by a similar percentage to other departments (say 15-20%).

Instead however I am horrified to discover that "Britain's contributions to the EU will rise by almost a quarter, despite the deep cuts to public services in this country.

The small print of yesterday?s spending review reveals that net contributions to the EU will rocket from £8.3billion this year to £10.3 billion over the next four years.

Some of the rise is due to Labour?s decision to surrender part of Britain?s budget rebate.

The revelation came as MEPs rubber-stamped a 5.9 per cent increase in the EU?s budget for next year, prompting angry exchanges in the Commons." (copied and pasted from another website)

So am I being unreasonable in thinking that Osborne and Co really are just giving lip service to the working poor, and using the deficit as an excuse as when it gets difficult (I don't doubt renegoiating the biudget is difficult) they just aren't that bothered

yanbu!!!

An awful lot if money comes in to the uks most needy areas from Europe.

(sorry about the ? instead of ' I thought it had pasted ok)

But an awful lot more seems to go out we are a net contributor to Europe (we pay more than we get back in return).

I'll try again anyone else agree with me, please tell me what does Europe do to justify this increase of 2 billion (which more than wipes out the loss of CB to higher rate taxpayers)

YABU

We don't have a choice what we pay to Europe.
Unless we leave, which isn't going to happen.

If your rage were directed at the overseas aid budget then maybe you would have a point... Maybe.

yabu

we don't have any choice, it is determined by the committee what everyone's contribution is.

YABU as others have said. We're signed up to Europe, we have to pay what they ask.

If you're looking for who to blame about why we're signed up to this particular deal with Europe it's not going to be a Tory.

I realise that it would be difficult but why is leaving such a bad option.

I genuinely can't see how we benefit to the tune of 10 billion pounds. We have no control (MEP's voted to increase their budgets yesterday, when all around budgets are being slashed).

I guess I'm just totally disilliusioned

I know labour sold us down the river on that one FWIW I don't have any real policical alliegance.

What do we get that makes it that we can't just walk away...

I must be missing something pretty significant but Norway and Switerland seem to do just fine

Doris - there are massive financial penalties if we leave which we have agreed to I believe.

Plus, we do need to at least maintain cordial relations with Germany and France et al.

Thanks lucky, I shall just have to sit and fester for much much longer

Roll on the referendum (I forever live in hope)

PS I can be cordial to people without handing over shed loads of money, maybe the government could try that

If you're looking for who to blame about why we're signed up to this particular deal with Europe it's not going to be a Tory.

Edward Heath?

YANBU to be astounded at how much we pay to Europe. (Leaving aside the grant to poorer countries, the expenses of the EU institutions are horrifically high and should certainly be slashed)

YABU to think we can just cut that amount at will - we are signed up

I-don't-know-if-YABU (IDKIYABU?) to think we should leave Europe so as to avoid making these payments. It's a very very complicated question.

YABU, you get lots of money from Europe too.

What Franca ?

I think what grates me most is the expense and waste of the EU institutions but I would like to know how the EU benefits us.

Never mind the latest deal, we're in it in the first place because of a decision on the part of a political party that, er, wasn't Labour. #cough# Edward Heath #cough# Tory #cough#

I'm no apologist for the EU myself, but the argument as I understand it is that by far the major part of the UK's exports go to Europe, that there are substantial benefits to our trade from being inside the economic zone, and pulling out would cost far more than a mere one-off fine - and whatever the funny people say about "we have no trade and we have no industry" (old DTI joke), this country is extremely dependent on trade. Had we not joined it we would not have become so dependent on trade with this one area, but as we have, we can't just pull out, pay the fine and switch to new markets at the drop of a hat. It will take years and it will not be fun in the meanwhile.

Waiting for an economist to explain properly.

RandyRussian - don't be facile. Edward Heath did not sign up to the EU in its current guise. It even had a different name when he joined us up (post a referendum!). You well know that it was the last labout government who conceded a large part of our rebate.

Thanks Annie

What do we trade with Europe, I thought our manufacturing base had been decimated?

What do you trade with Europe? First of all you get to play with all the European money in the City...

So when talking about trade it's more like to be stocks and shares than produced goods?

What are the incentives to trade in London as an alternative to Franfurt?

(I guess what I mean is why would this stop?) (Whilst trying desperately not to sound completely stupid!)

No, not just that. I am quite positive that goods made in the UK are exported to the EU area.
But I'm also positive that good chunks of European money converge in the City.
I also believed that the EU gave good funding to the UK agricultural production, but it might jkust be Italian propaganda.