To want to ask some comprehension questions from friend's DD

[maggotyhaggis]

OK so I'm being VERY, VERY Unreasonable. My cousin has just told me that her DD is currrently gripped to the Little Women series, Heidi and the entire Roald Dahl collection of books and cannot stop reading. The child is FOUR. My cousin always brags about her DD's extremely advanced reading skills. She is a lovely child, but doesn't appear particularly bright or able, so I keep wondering if my cousin is exaggerating or if the little girl actually understands . I am not surprised at the reading per se but that a four year old can understand and enjoy books like that independently. We are going to the park tomorrow, and I wondered if I should ask a quick couple of questions when my cousin is out of earshot.

I am not entirely serious by the way, so no slagging me off for interrogating the child or being jealous please, but isn't it normal to be a bit curious?

I could read before I went to school and as a v shy child felt as though there was something wrong or weird about me when all the grown ups quizzed me or made (what I realise now were)cutting comments.

I actually remember being brought into a room at school and asked all sorts of IQ type questions and lying to get them wrong, as I was obsessed with pleasing the hostile bitch of a teacher!! I just wanted to be the same as everyone else and I couldn't understand why this was a 'bad thing'.

My mum was fab, though, and v encouraging. Was moving house recently and found the complete works of Oscar Wilde that I got from Santa Claus (love you, mum!)- but did believe until I was 10!

Am now an English teacher, and am still shite at Maths...
Never mastered the old cartwheel, either

I was reading Willard Price, Roald Dahl etc at that age. I was just a pain in the arse child who wouldn't sleep for love nor money so my parents just read to me all the time until I turned into a bookworm myself.

Made Topsy & Turvy at nursery/reception/whatever it was called back then a bit of a waste of time.

Bg difference between being able to decode words and actually read and comprehend "properly" text. A 4y is going to have to be very mature in their thinking to comprehend books aimed at much older children - my be able to read them in term so fknowing the words though.

Would be concerned about a parent who would just allow her 4y to read all and any book they chose without making sure they were age appropriate too.

It does depend what you mean by 'understand' - a small child might read and enjoy Little Women, but they probably wouldn't understand the first chapter too well unless they had prior exposure to the story of Pilgrim's Progress and the American Civil war.

Hulababy .... that is something that I've found very difficult - trying to find books which captured my daughter's interest, challenged her reading ability (not because I felt she should be challenged, but because she would get frustrated with what she described as "easy" books) and contained suitable reading matter which was age appropriate. I'm sure most parents with advanced readers are well aware of the potential pitfalls however and act accordingly. When my daughter was 5 she came home from school with a Tracy Beaker book from the school library which was very quickly returned, upon which the teacher apologised profusely because she'd taken it without their knowledge.

I always check the books my daughter wants to read and believe me, it's not always easily accomplished stood in Smiths with her mithering me for something quite unsuitable which technically, I know she'd have no problem with - especially since so many books aimed at her reading age are full of vampires and the like ! I also always discuss the books she is allowed, to make sure she's understood and enjoyed them. The comparative lack of suitable fiction does mean that she also reads quite a lot of factual books, which is no bad thing.

The reason people think it is so rare, is if you dare to mention that your DC can read at the age of 4 you will be attacked.

I was on a train with DS when he was four and he was reading the front of someones newspaper that said school children were leaving school unable to read.

He turned to the man reading the paper and told him it was rubbish. The man asked him to read the whole page and he did.

Strangely, and not relevant, it turned out that the man was the OBGYN that had delivered my DS and been worried about the lack of oxygen to his brain.

Lemme see, I was reading Professor Branestawm, Enid Blyton and Paddington at that age. I was quite advanced (had been reading fluently since before 3). Just to that it is not beyond the realms of reason for a 4 yo to read and understand chapter books.

I would be surprised however if a 4 year old could manage full-strength Heidi and Little Women- the language is not that easy. I think I was nearer 8 than 4 before I read them.

Cousin may be fantasizing or her daughter may be extremely advanced, who knows?

catsmother, this is where the classics really come into their own.

Lots of oldfashioned books are only unsuitable for ordinary dcs because they are grammatically complex or contain unusual words, but are absolutely fine for early developers because there is nothing too scary or inappropriate in the contents- books like Ballet Shoes, Swallows and Amazons, Four Children and It, The Amulet, The Borrowers, Anne of Green Gables, Jennings, Padddington Bear, Professor Branestawm etc etc. There is absolutely no lack of suitable fiction, you just have to know where to look. Which is more often Amazon or second-hand bookshops these days.

The problem with school library books is that they combine very basic language with rather adult content.

I was also an early and prolific reader. I was in constant trouble at age 6 for breaking the "only one library book a week" rule and my teacher wouldn't believe that I was reading them properly and used to "test" me.
I was reading non-fiction books at age 5 and had a crack at LOTR at 7 - but was terrified by the mines of Moria and gave up until age 13!
Perhaps your cousin's child is just going to be an obsessive reader like I still am. I wouldn't quiz her though - I remember how irritating it was.

I agree with what other people are saying about v clever kids reading all sorts. My dc have always read books techically meant for much older kids (like all Mumsnetters' dc of course!).

BUT OP, trust me parents do lie about... I mean exaggerate their children's talents! I've seen it many, many times.

I know it's tempting but just leave it. Truth will out. Lets see if she ends up a literary scholar at Cambridge!

A couple of my friends mums used to do it me when I was old enough to understnad what they were doing. When I went to their houses the mums would often ask me maths questions, e.g. what is 8x7. I was neer very good at maths and it was so random and out of the blue, such as I'd just walked into the kitchen to ask for a drink and I'd be hit with the question. They used to smirk when I couldn't answer. I never told my mum, wish I had. Well, one girl didn't get any a-levels and ended up knocked up at 17. One didn't get any gcse's and works in a cafe :)

I personally hate parents that do that. It's so unkind. They're only children. If you think it's lies, take it up with your cousin.

Ds is reading the Hobbit, loves Roald Dahl etc, so pretty capable but not exceptional.

However, vocabulary doesn't always equate to emotional understanding, at 6 some of the books he brings home from school are not that appropriate - he was by one that had girls giggling about snogging and angsting over parents getting divorced. But he also still enjoys hearing the books younger dd has read to her and likes funny books like Mr Gum, so hope the OP's sister is not missing some of the age appropriate books, there is much pleasure in Hairy Maclary and the Tiger Who Came to Tea.

i agree with scorpette in that i feel i am admitting something shameful here. i was an early reader and i'm told able to read a broadsheet by the time i started school. i was and am still a very fast reader. i used to read my schoolbooks overnight and return for another next day. one harrowing early incident of being disbelieved and called a liar in front of the class by teacher and the assistant and i hid the extent of my reading for years. would exchange schoolbooks when the other kids did and read my dads library books instead. i do recall that though i was able to read the words' i didnt have the experience to understand and assimilate. took me several goes to get through smileys people. think i finally cracked it aged 12 or 13. didnt stop me trying regularly tho and i did like deighton's cold war thrillers. easier than lecarre.
OP if you do ask go easy, it can leave a lasting bizarre sense of shame.

'scuse the choppy syntax, nursing a hungry fidgetty 5mo. :)

I was also very precocious and an avid bookworm from a very early age. I had learnt to read and write by the time I started infant school.

I was ahead of all the other children so had to have a 1 on 1 reading lesson with the headmaster. I can remember reading Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and coming across the word Juggernaut. My teacher had to explain what it meant, I was 5 at the time but I have never forgotten it.

My mother was not proud by any means, she had been severely chastised by the teachers for teaching me to read and write before I started school. My grandmother on the other hand, was proud as punch and regularly bought me books that today would be considered quite unsuitable for a young child.

Languages and maths escaped me and I only managed to scrape a pitiful c grade at 'O' level.

Wow, some of these stories make me quite sad. I started school as a free reader - though not as advanced as some, I had no interest in reading grown up books - and I never experienced any negativity. My schoolwork was differentiated and my teachers adored me despite the fact I was a precocious little madam. Such a shame others haven't been so lucky (my DH included)

It's possible that the girl in question can read so well, but I'd have thought that if she can you would get a more 'clever vibe' from her.

Maybe IABU too but I really want to know if it's true! I hope your cousin isn't exaggerating as that will be very damaging. But tread carefully, or you'll come across as jealous.

I don't know about "clever vibes". I was very reticent outside of the family until I was quite old. Otoh my nephew gave off far "cleverer" vibes than dd did because he was constantly being shown off and had a very good opinion of himself in his younger days- he has since reached a more balanced attitude. I remember his dad taking my dd for the day (having known her for several years) and being very surprised at the level of conversation they were having: he had clearly never felt any clever vibes coming from her before.

I'm another one who read avidly as a child, and by four I am pretty certain I could have tackled Heidi - I am not sure whether this has been mentioned, but I found as a child that I could read texts aimed at a much more mature audience and that it did not, in fact, matter that I did not get entirely to grips with difficult language or phraseology. Instead, I glossed over the bits I did not understand and my immature child's mind still managed to get the general gist of the thing. I think everybody does this really so it should not be surprising that children can read well beyond what is expected of them. I know I don't get out the dictionary every time I see a word in print that I don't understand, but I still comprehend the text as a whole.

For many years I thought certain words were pronounced one way, when in fact they sound completely different, because I had only ever seen them written down. I developed an impressive vocabulary from reading, but from time to time embarassed myself horribly when telling adults all about Nya-gara Falls and how people could be so 'knave' sometimes (naive...)

Veering off-point, but certainly OP, a four year old could, I believe, be reading Heidi and Little Women.

Now I have a daughter of my own, I shall watch with interest how her reading ability develops - her father can barely read and has no interest whatsoever in books, and I am a bookworm to this day!

Thanks for the suggestions Cory .... luckily we do have a lot of classic kids' books at home (not least because I studied children's literature at college for a bit) but, as you say, you have to know where to look. Obviously, larger bookshops are best and in that respect I'm lucky that Cambridge isn't too far from me, but where I live, for example, apart from charity shops, the only place to get books is Smiths (a small one) and their choice is woeful. Amazon is good if you have a reasonable idea of what you want but nothing beats a good old browse in a real bookshop to my mind !

It's interesting that a lot of you comment about keeping your child's reading skills close to your heart for fear of negative remarks from other parents. I'm lucky in that (so far) other children and parents in my daughter's class have been complimentary .... not that I've discussed it, but they've seen and heard for themselves when they help in class, or their kids pass it on (she's read to the whole class on occasion). Mostly, I've also found that teachers have been very supportive though when she went from Yr 1 to 2 and her old class teacher put her down at a certain level, the literacy co-ordinator (or some such) didn't "believe" it and DD was asked to do a SATS comprehension paper to prove the point - which she did very well at and proved the Yr 1 teacher right !

I hadn't said anything before but I could also read before I went to school and remember whizzing through Janet and John (god that ages me) thinking how boring they were. I don't remember my parents formally teaching me either. I do remember being on holiday at about 7 or 8 and buying myself a book about witchcraft though with my holiday money (in the days when kids that young were allowed to wonder round the shops while their parents remained on the beach). God knows how my parents never noticed me reading it - or, if they did, why they didn't confiscate it but I scared myself s**tless .... I certainly understood it alright, but took it as gospel and wasn't mature enough to rationalise it in any way. Too late, I made my mum keep cursed book in her wardrobe for the next 5-6 years.

I agree with cory about the classics being brilliant for young readers with the caveat that you need to watch them for attitudes to disability/race - I wouldn't let the original edition of Doctor Doolittle anywhere near my 5 year old DD, and I know some disability activists are not big fans of Heidi.

I'd also second BodyUnknown's comment about it being fine if you don't understand a book 100% first time, I read Little Women when I was 7 and had no clue about the background, but that's how you learn stuff, by piecing together the things you read.

I only talk about my dc reading when other people ask me. I have never asked anyone else what their children are reading (except in a "what kind of book would they like for a birthday present?" kind of way). I must live in a competitive-parenting black hole, I think.