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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think some people should not be allowed children?

24 replies

igetmorelovefromthecat · 13/10/2010 17:39

A friend of mine who is a midwife was telling me a week or so ago about a patient she saw at work..and it is still really playing on my mind.

She was asked to go and speak to a lady who had learning difficulties and was pregnant with her 5th child. Two had been taken into care and two were still with her. She was not in labour, she thought there was something wrong with her heart (there wasn't). My friend said it was pretty hard to get much sense out of this woman. Then her baby started kicking and she kept shouting things at her bump such as 'stop kicking me you little fucker!'. I was horrified by that, and feel incredibly sad for that poor baby who is destined for a really shit life. It seems so unfair that this woman has five kids and some people can't have any.

Also was out and about at the weekend and saw a family getting out of their car. Their dd who was about 3 was wearing a disney princess dress with wellies underneath and looked really cute. Her dad looked at her and snapped at his dp "What the fuck is she wearing wellies for? She looks like a fucking idiot!" He said this really loudly right in front of his two young dc. There was definitely someone who looked like a fucking idiot but it wasn't the poor little girl.

Rant over.

OP posts:
Goblinchild · 13/10/2010 17:43

It's called eugenics, and the problem is where do you draw the line and who makes the decisions as to who is and isn't an appropriate person to be a parent.

RunawayPumpkin · 13/10/2010 17:48

I agree some people should not be allowed to have children

GypsyMoth · 13/10/2010 17:49

midwives shouldnt be breaking patient confidentiality!!!!

Original poster
igetmorelovefromthecat · 13/10/2010 17:50

She wasn't...she didn't give me any details about who the woman was!

OP posts:
backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 17:51

YANB entirely U but your MW friend is for breaking patient confidentiality.

DialMforMother · 13/10/2010 17:51

Yes toptulip that is the really shocking thing here - nice sense of perspective.

ItWasADarkAndStormyNight · 13/10/2010 17:52

Agree with goblinchild

fuschiagroan · 13/10/2010 17:53

She ISN'T breaking confidentiality if she doesn't say who the woman was.

DialMforMother · 13/10/2010 18:00

Sorry - I assumed it would be clear that I was being sarcastic but others are also clearly under the impression that that's even vaguely important here.

So child abuse ranks what? Second?
Eugenics a close third?

backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 18:00

Ok, she didn't name her, but should she really be discussing patients with friends? It's not very professional, is it?

backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 18:01

Sorry DialMforMother, I thought it was pretty clear from my post that I agreed with the OP... Apparently not.

DialMforMother · 13/10/2010 18:03

Cross posting so I hadn't seen what you'd written.

Original poster
igetmorelovefromthecat · 13/10/2010 18:04

She is under immense stress as all midwives are, talking to her made me realise just what a hard time they get. I don't know how she could manage to stay professional in a situation like that but of course she did. I think she just needed to offload...and she didn't give me any details about who the woman was so she did not break confidentiality.

OP posts:
spikeycow · 13/10/2010 18:05

Wow. Poor baby Sad

backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 18:08

(I'm being deliberately obtuse now, and fully expect a flaming, but...)

So you thought you'd come on and give the details you did get onto a popular forum on the internet. So what if the MW's supervisor (whatever they're called - line manager) reads this and thinks "that sounds really like a story X was telling me about patient Y, that's not really on". I think people should be more careful about what they say to friends/post on places like this.

DialMforMother · 13/10/2010 18:08

All professionals (teachers, lawyers, doctors) talk to friends - they just don't name names. It's not unusual at all. What a weird direction for his thread to take.

I hope your friend spoke to the woman about this and contacted social services?

wonderstuff · 13/10/2010 18:09

YANBU - but what can be done? It wasn't very long ago eugenics was a popular idea and we were routinly sterilising people, I think that allowing everyone and anyone to have babies and as a society stepping in to protect said babies is the least worse option.

backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 18:10

I talk to friends of course, but not about the kids I teach. I'll maybe tell my husband, but I know he wouldn't come onto an internet forum and tell the world about it. Just saying...

backwardpossom · 13/10/2010 18:11

Anyways, you're right DialM this is an odd direction for the thread.

Eugenics is most certainly not the way forward. Where would you stop?

Bugrit · 13/10/2010 18:19

Agree with goblinchild. A logical conclusion to the 'some people shouldn't be allowed to have children' argument is enforced sterlisation for women with learning difficulties in this case or for women deemed unfit to be mothers by the moral majority (perhaps because of dire social circumstances).

I'm not saying that child abuse is okay but who decides who 'some people' are? I guess we don't go far wrong with intervention from social services in many cases - it seems they're already involved in the first family scenario outlined by OP.

brassband · 13/10/2010 18:20

case 1 I doubt very much that a foetus will be scarred by what is said to it

case 2 the dad said to his wife 'what's she wearing fucking wellies for she looks like a fucking idiot'
OK not ideal to swear in front of your kids but i bet Gordon ramasy does sometime.Is he an unfit parent who should have his kids taken into care?

spikeycow · 13/10/2010 18:24

Well I thought if she's irritated by the kicking what will she be like when baby screams? If she said it joking that's different but it was aggressive Sad

ApocalypseCheese · 13/10/2010 18:44

Yanbu. There is/was a family near to me with 4dcs.

Mum has sns and had attended a sn school as a child.

Dad has mental health issues.

Two of the dcs they have, have got sn's and putting it blunty were left to roam, her son who is still in nappies aged 14, was drinking and smoking. More than once I brought him home from the supermarket.

They had a LOT of help from social services, it must have cost a fortune ! Cleaners, weekend respite, parenting support. The lot.

Anyways, it all came to a head a while back, two dcs are in foster care, two are with relatives and the parents have been charged with child cruelty/neglect.

Very, very, sad all round.

KERALA1 · 13/10/2010 18:53

Also used to work with families like this. But yes - these thoughts can slip towards eugenics which most agree is BAD. Though surely there is a middle way? Mothers like this counselled and encouraged to have contraceptive implants for example? I remember hearing about a project in New York that worked with drug addict mothers that had 4 kids plus which paid them to use contraceptives. It was contraversial but a part of me thought it was actually quite sensible. Their having these many children benefited nobody and led to misery all round.

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