to be frustrated that SO many people don't understand the difference between the national debt and the deficit?

[Prinnie]

Title says it all really - really wish people would get their heads around it before forming thier opinions on the economy/politics.

Longfingernails. you are having a laugh.

Sun readers are those who cannot read without moving their lips and following the sentence with their fingers.

YANBU the level of ignorance in the majority of people is astounding.

"all that knowledge hasn't done your average person in the developing world, India or china much good though has it."

Have you ever lived or worked there? Any experience of the dynamism of grass roots entrepreneurship in either country?

China will overtake the US as the world's biggest economy soon. It recently overtook Japan for the No. 2 spot.

India is set to overtake China as China's one-child policy means its population will actually decrease over time.

Something like half a billion Indians have moved out of poverty since 1985 -- that according to the World Bank.

Both countries have different challenges (India's democracy has slowed its ascent but may actually be its saving grace in some ways) but both countries have exited the global recession relatively unscathed.

newwave

You are missing the point (deliberately, I think).

Sun readers aren't ideological - they see the world as it is, not as it should be. In my book, that makes them much smarter than angst-filled Guardian readers obsessing over non-stories.

I think much of our infrastructure depends and thrives upon Joe Public not really understanding it hence unable to challenge it/putting up with it. It suits Them and by Them I mean politicians of all persuasions, financial institutions and the higher echelon of the civil service. The days when a family could avoid involvement with all this by opening the cash wage packet on a Friday night and putting the money into little piles for rent, bills, food are long gone.
I am beginning my own fightback by embarking on an OU course on personal finances so that I can improve on DH's pension that he's been paying for twenty years and will give us about £2.76 or so a year when he retires. And suggest some better investments for ds's money which needs to last him a lifetime.

Is it that you prefer people who read the Sun to not question things, by any chance LFN?

Sheesh, there are some chips on shoulders on this thread. Yes, it may be a slightly arrogantly worded title, but freaking heck - why is there such a hang up on knowing stuff?

I don't know much about economics - but am trying to learn more. 1. because it's interesting and 2. I don't like talking about stuff I don't know things about.

Guardian readers think of the world as they think it ought to be.

I occasionally read the Guardian, I also occasionally read the Times, the Telegraph, the Indie, the Sun, the Mail and the Express etc.

I don't recall ever taking part in a survey to record my views on the world. Perhaps I missed a meeting?

Of course if there is evidence to support this statement please point me towards it.

Does it all really matter?
Some experts know, and yet have different, sometimes opposite, opinions. So, if we all knew better, and all had a say in it, do you really think we would make our life better???

Judging by the tone of some posters, I think it would lead to a civil war

lecce I'm not trying to rewrite history by placing Labout/GB as the cause of the entire global financial crisis but they didn't leave us very well prepared.

a) They presided over a 4% structural deficit when times were good which would have been a good time to sort it out.

b) GB was more than happy to let the banks run riot, causing massive house price inflation and spending the vast swaves of tax from the banking sector when things were good.

lady blah blah and miffymuffy - I'm so intelligent my head has just exploded!

Okay am I being unreasonable to ask that people stop comparing the national debt and deficit to

household bugets and credit cards

It's NOT the same.

YASNBU

I lie on the floor and weep when I'm not banging my head slowly and rhythmically against the wall.

Are you referring to my post celtic?
The point I was trying to make is that there is such a level of ignorance of basic financial matters in this country that we should not be surprised that so many people cannot tell the difference between debt, deficit or defecation. Only when this is rectified can the masses rise up to the lofty heights required to Deal with Stuff.
I am clearly too Joe Public for this thread so will do the honours.

One of the worst things about peoples knowledge is that they think the banking bailout contributed to the structural deficit and so just shout tax the bankers its their fault. They totally forget/ignore that Gordon Brown was running a structural deficit of around 4% before any of the current economic problems arose.

funnily enough I have lived in several 'developing' countries. remember seeing someone getting the sh*t kicked out of them by the police on my car windscreen in fact. they were protesting about the appalling levels of nepotism that mean you're either incredibly rich or incredibly poor. you graduate, then don't get a job unless you know someone high up. millions of graduates on the dole. no real democracy. secret police keeping an eye on things in case you step out of line then it's off to the secret prisons with you. (actually half of that sounds spookily familiar). knowing lots about economics doesn't help if you live in a corrupt nation. I agree - the level of economic and political knowledge of your average teenager in some developing countries is impressive but I stand by my point - it does them no good at all. they will grow up and be oppressed by the ruling classes who get ever richer.