to think i should not force daughter to sleep at XP house aginst her wishes

[esti1]

my daughter is 4 and refusing to sleep at her dads house. I have forced the iussue in the past and told her she must as its important to spend time with him, however last two occasions she has become very upset crying etc for the week running to her stay, so i have said see how you feel on the day and take a bag incase you change your mind but she hasnt and has come home in the evening. this is fine by me but I just dont know how to deal with this Im not prepared to force her if she does not want to.

but his agrument is that I would force her to go to school if she refused...My responce to this is that I have a legal obligation to send her to school but would be finding out with the school why she may be upset...this is crap as she loves school and cleary feels more secure there than with her own father!!! cant really tell him that though, lol!

i have asked her why and she said because she does not love her dad. she is four though but thats good enough reason for me.

today he chastised her for it mildly telling her that its unfare on Mum as She needs a break and if mum had made plans she would have no choice but to stay and that now she is sleeping there the bbq they were going to have cant now happen as hes not prepared to do it early as he wont be able to relax if he needs to drive her home. I pointed out this was emotional black mail and really its not about me needing or even wanting a break but their relationship so kindly asked he did not use thi card again.

he was absent from her life for a chunk between 18mnts untill just a few months ago and I feel this is her taking controle of their relationship as she does not see him to be reliable to build an attachment to. I just dont know wether to send her kicking and screaming or not????

I wouldn't send her if she is that distressed but would find other ways of them spending time together

She is only 4

she is happy to go out with him go to his house just not sleep.

the other problem for me is that he consistently refuses to make a regular arrangement he will call weds for instance to say he will see her sat...im fed up asking for a routine for her so i just say yeay or nay depending upon our plans and he even questions my plans. anyway he fails to see this will help her know wether she is comoning or going.

don't make her do anything

she is clearly reacting to the inconsistent way she is being treated by him

4 yo's need stability, and they like to know where they will be at any given time

I would say until he can commit (and stick) to a proper contact regime, you will be suspending the sleepovers

emotionally-blackmailing a little kid is very low behaviour, too...how pathetic

I don't get how any parent (talking about your ex here) could watch their child be so distressed about this. Can't he just take her out for the day? Has she told either of you why she is upset about it? It might be a phase (seems to be loads of these at this age) that she grows out of soon.

Maybe it's the lack of routine? Some DC really need it more than others. Her dad is being very, very unreasonable and selfish, treating his own daughter this way.

I wouldn't force the issue with your DD. What's her dad going to do if you say no overnight visits until DD wants to?

I would build her up slowly with just day visits to start with and make sure they are regular. Once the relationship has developed it will be easier to approach the subject of an overnight visit. There is no point in making her so distressed.....give her time to get to know him.

yanbu. If she is not happy spending time with him then I don't think you should force her at 4yo.

If he has only been back in her life for a few months, after no contact since she was 18 months, he is more or less a stranger to her now. If this was in the courts, you would be building up to overnights over a period of a couple of nights at least - she is still very young and obviously feeling insecure.

If she is happy to spend time with him at his house, why is he so keen on forcing it now? Why did he bugger off for over two years?

I would suggest to him that forcing it now is going to make things worse and possibly end up with provoking a more extreme reaction in her. Why not revert to regular day time visits, and try again for an overnight in a month or two.

It is very important that she gets to know her dad as she grows up, but this does not mean trying to force a situation which is much better off left to develop more naturally.

If he had always been in her life it would be a different matter, but she won't have any memories of him from 18months so she must be pretty confused now as to what on earth is going on. She must be feeling very insecure.

sorry, building up over a couple of 'months' , not 'nights'.

thanks for advice he began contact taking her to a father and child group everyother saturday morning this was great and she loved it, he invited her on a three day break a few weeks after with him and his NP and she jumped at the chance so i agreed as she realy did seem happy and had a great time and built a good bond from then on in.

she is very strong willed and emotionaly mature for her age so i think now basicaly it was too much to soon but even so from the onset of being introduced again i said that it is to be on her terms.

the alternate saturday mornings have fallen on the wayside and she now does football saturday mornings. I have tryed to encourage him to have a routine but its impossible to force it with him so i just let our routine dictate it. I know as she grows up she will make her own mind up about him and thats down to him i cant change his comitment to her but I need to be there to support her.

I think I will tell him no sleep overs for a while. I dont want to over intervine as the reason he was absent as we had this same issue before and I pushed it and he fucked off for 6mnths before contacting her and sent me txt asking for her over that Xmas so basically I told him no contact untill we attend mediation to come up with a reasonable agreement. in which he agreed to a routine but it is not legaly binding.

so i would rather for her have in her life as it rather than in and out every time its get to tough for him.

I would be wary of saying it is 'on her terms' - she is too little to feel she has to carry the weight of responsibility for how and when she sees her dad; that is really your job as her primary carer.

Of course you can't ignore her wishes, and I understand why he says you would make her go to school - but equally you have to approach such things with a degree of care as 'forcing' a child to do anything is usually not very successful and runs risk of making anything worse.

So I think stepping back a bit is the best option - reassure him that you are not trying to stop contact but scale it back and then try for overnights a bit later.

If he doesn't understand or can't be senstive to what she needs, I would be a bit worried about how this relationship will develope to be honest.

thanks spero...i ment on her terms in terms of when and she is ready for things to develope stage by stage. I would nt consider her having free range of conrole over this at all.

I have taken a back seat, untill today I have not been too sure how to handle it so have been surprisingly non vocal to him on the matter which as been usefull other than asking him not bring my need for a break into it

"If he doesn't understand or can't be senstive to what she needs, I would be a bit worried about how this relationship will develope to be honest".
this is what concernes me most, but I feel there is little I can actually do about this other than to be there for her after disopointment...I will never cast judgment about him nor build his presence up to DD.

Esti - is 'because I don't love him' something you think she would just say, or do you think there's a chance he's forcing her to do something and telling her she would do it if she loved him? Whether that's simply going to bed in the dark or something worse. What is it that is changing that she doesn't want to be there at night. I wouldn't make her go nor stay, but I would want to know why she feels like this.

Make sure you tell her that you don't need a break from her wont you!

...and don't blame yourself for him fucking off before either - if he was half decent he would have worked through any issues with you and kept seeing his daughter - it is not your fault!!

The i dont love him thing is nothing sinister im pretty sure about that she is brutral and honest at times and she does base her level of friendship or loyalty on how much she loves people...she tells me she doesnt need friends at school coz she only loves her cousins lol and everyone in her class she isnt too keen on is disgusting lol!! I think its just an honest assumption that she does not feel alot of love for him, how can she he has not always been there and he is not comited to her.

i dont feel guilt but I do feel responsible for his absence in a sence. although its his choice I thought hard about the no contact untill mediation and knew he would be stuborn over it, it was a test of his loyalty that I had to make happen. but I do find it difficult that I cant just say ok you have 1 in 3 or everyother wkend.

**because thats not what he wants!!

estil1, sorry I thought you meant you were going to let her make the decision. which is obviously not what you meant.

I think you are exactly right about why she says she doesn't love him - of course she doesn't, she doesn't really know him yet. That is hopefully what will develop IF he can be understanding about what she needs at this very young age.

I think routine, stability and predicatability are vital at this age, so can't he just agree to every other or every 1st weekend or something similar? Then you can put it on the calendar and she is reassured about what and when.

Good luck, hope you can get something that works for you all, but most of all your daughter.

I would see if you can get some legal advice, maybe some mediation to point out to him that she needs regular contact to build a relationship and feel safe and secure. That forcing her to stay over when she gets so distressed is not going to help.

I would also take her to see your GP if she gets so distressed again (if only to get an independent record). Do also talk to her teachers.

Good luck.

Lol i did alow her to make the decision not to sleep there after she became upset but previouse i encouraged her to and she did. thats what i was unsure about as if i had made her she would have gone off kicking and screaming, i think today was right to let her make that decision, i understand what you ment about her having it on her shoulders too much for her! and if she decides never to sleep there thats fine by me, but was asking is that the right thing to do. thanks for advice it has reasured me i have done the right thing and that im not asking to much of him. x