to say something to my friend?

[Tigerdrivesbackin]

I am quite prepared for you all to say "beak out" and that is a bit how I feel. But....

A dear friend of mine has been unwell for some years. Won't go into details as I think she might well be a MNetter however she has chronic pain and is understandably also suffering from depression.

Her husband works shifts. when he is on the early shift, she gets up at about 4 am to help him make his sandwiches and spend time with him. This has been going on for some months now. Her DCs are poor sleepers, so on early days she is awake from 4am until midnight. day after day.

She has told me that she doesn't have to do this, she wants to, but I really want to say more, and indeed tackle her husband, who I get on ok with generally. I have just seen her health get worse and worse and her state of mind get more and more desperate over the past few months and frankly if she could have a few hours sleep more a night, then I'm sure things would at least not get worse.

Sorry, this is a bit of a ramble. I'd really value some advice though, I feel I am letting her down as a friend by standing by.

If she says she wants to do it then I don't really think it is your place to say anything.
She is lucky to have friends who care though :)

Read it again, you definitely shouldn't say anything to her husband. It is between them as husband and wife, just because she is ill you cannot go over her head and take that away from her.
We usually have no idea of what goes on inside a marriage.

mumto: no I wouldn't try to take anything away from her. Last thing I would do. I just feel there's something not quite right here and I'd like to suggest an alternative to her, from the outside this all looks and feels wrong. And her Dh, who I get on with as I say, is a bit obtuse, he wouldn't necessarily think it through, as far as I can tell - have known them a while.

I haven't read the Submissive Wife (if that's what that book's called) so am really talking out of my hat here, but there's something about the "it's my choice to do it" (when it's clearly damaging her health) that smacks of that sort of thing. I just feel worried for her.

bump

I'm not sure what can be done, if you've already spoken to her about it and she says she wants to. Are you worried that her DH is being emotionally abusive, or that he's simply being a bit lame by not realising his wife is so wiped out?

Thanks for coming back to me, Tigerbear. I know, it's difficult to know what to do: I feel a bit of both tbh. Mainly he's not very switched on sometimes, so he might not think there's anything very wrong (I know that sounds bonkers, but I do know both of them, and he's really a bit obtuse) and also I feel really very cross that he doesn't put his foot down and tell her to go back to bed, I don't think he's making her get up, but I feel that by not encouraging her to go back he's exacerbating and encouraging the situation. Obviously it's up to them, but it's hard to see someone who's ill and in pain at the best of time getting worse and worse with all this going on when some common sense could make things better.

Would some subtle hints do the job - lots of 'Gee if only she was getting a decent nights sleep she might not feel so wiped out'. 'If she's awake when you get up, do you think a hot chocolate in bed would help her get back to sleep - she's so tired and I'm sure she wouldn't be so unwell if she was sleeping better'.

You know them, really only you know how he'd react if you said something to him directly... I would with my friends, but I'm as gobby outspoken in RL as I am on here and I couldn't stand by & watch my friend do this & him let her.

thanks, ChippingIn - I think I'll go for this approach. I can't just stand by, even though it's none of my beeswax, although surely our friends are our business, aren't they? I'll see if I can speak to him and try the (subtleish) hints. She is very open (almost too open) about all this, telling all and sundry, round robin emails, taking the approach of how tired she is, how pleased she'll be when he's not on these shifts, etc etc - when the obvious answer is "let him make his own sandwiches and get some sleep!". I think I'll have to go into bossy old bag mode here (quite easy for me).

Agree with Chipping. I originally thought you shouldn't say anything, but now think you should. Also if your friend is depressed, this may well be a contributing factor. Although she's tired, she might be suffering from insomnia too so might think getting up at 4am is a good idea (but then feel awful later). Depression does completely affect your common sense, so in a weird way she might feel guilty that her DH has to get up early, so joins him too to show her support. Not sure if that makes sense, but I know that when I had depression I made stupid decisions and all common sense went out the window.

Tigerbear - I think you have it on the head. She talks about "bonding" with him at 4 am making his sandwiches, this is the only time she can bond with him. I guess he's bleary eyed and just bumbles around, but then she can't go back to sleep so does housework, etc etc then is shattered, and then has to get the kids to school and they are always late and in a hurry and life is always chaotic. She is depressed, is on meds for depression. I've been there (not 4am!) too, so I know that your sense of reality does go out of the window, guilt goes all over the place etc.

Thank you for listening to my rambling. I posted because I'd had an email from her (just a round robin) where she said she was shattered because of the 4 am starts and I just thought this can't go on. She's a lovely person and a good friend, it's very hard to see her in this state.

Any chance you can have her DC's once in a while so she can get an early night?
Know it doesn't help the root cause, but might offer some relief.

Tiger - sounds like you're a good friend too. I'm sure she will be glad of someone looking out for her.

FunkyCherry - will suggest it. I suspect she'd use the time to "do" stuff, not to sleep. But certainly could suggest - I don't think the DC are ever away.

My dh used to work funny hours and whilst pregnant with ds3 id quite often get up to cook his 'tea' for him at 3am - he didnt ask me to,nor did he want me to - but as a family its important sometimes to go that extra bit.

perhaps your friends depression means she cant sleep well??

On a purely practical level could she not just make the sandwiches the night before?

I think if it was my friend I would offer my services as in "can I come round in the afternoon and let you have a nap?" for example, then it would give me a way in later - "have you considered maybe taking a morning off from getting up so early?". I would feel better about commenting if I was actively helping.

Not sure if anybody said this, but stating the obvious, nobody would be offended if you said something like : "Dear god woman, stay in bed! Tell the DC that it's the middle of the night and go back to sleep, I'm sure he can shower and dress by himself and kiss you goodbye when he leaves"

Why the FUCK does he need help making sandwiches?? Surely it's bread, cheese, mayo, bread, bag.

God,I'm a terrible wife. I wouldn't dream of doing that, especially day after day. I'd say something to my friend if she wa doing it (and complaint to everyone) - it's not like you're suggesting she leave him, or something equally as inappropriate! You're just rending er she's not a martyr.

Sorry about all the typos! 'You're just reminding her...'