To threaten to kick my 16 going on 17 yr old son out for failing to attend school?

[Moanranger]

Am at wit's end with DS who just will not get to 6th form college on time. He is a passive lump, has very little going on except his music. Consistently late to college, not doing as they ask - various remedial measures in place. Lies to me about being on time, etc, etc. Ironically, he is not out smoking, doing drugs, breaking & entering. Sits in room and plays guitar or piano. If he does not clean up his act within a fortnight, they will kick him out. My first sacntion has been the removal of all guitars, keyboards, etc until he improves. The school is doing various things. Fri night I am taking him to Waterloo/ South bank for a tour of the homeless, so he gets a feel for what being kicked out would be like. In your face rebellion I could deal with - its this "lumpness" that is impossible. I asked him inf he wanted to get expelled, and he said no, but what is going on in that male, teenage reptilian brain? Anyone with experience of this, support, etc gratefully listened to.

Well he obviously doesn't want to do a levels
can he do an apprenticeship?
I don't think kicking him out because he doesn't want to go to sixth form is the answer, you need to find out what he does want to do

have you tried talking to his student support to see how he is getting on in 6th form?

hmm
I don't think kicking him out will help at all. Perhaps he is better off leaving 6th form and looking for work to pay his keep.

Kicking him out probably will not improve things tbh- is he a academic learner or vocational?
Do you think it's the right course for him?
Does he have a part time job or anything like that?

You could be writing this about my younger brother (have posted reams about him on here before)

I'm not saying kicking him out is the answer but some harsh but fair discipline is needed here. I won't regale you with the tales of my brother (dropped out of several college courses,now 21 and has had one p/t job for a week) but this is how he started out being such a bum. I and others used to warn my mum that he was on a slippery slope to nothing but she opted for the easy option; do nothing.

If he is choosing to sabotage his education then you must insist that he gets a part-time job. He has to have some structure and discipline to his life somewhere.

If he gets booted from college, then he will lay around like a lump; I can demand he get a job, but actually getting him out to apply? Unlikely... I asked him if he wants to be at 6th form and he says yes. He is bright and not the vocational type. The obvious other choice would be a vocational music course, but all we have found cost money. He is very capable intellectually and it would be a real waste for him not to do that. We are on the first step of tough love, but I think I have to have a real sanction that he believes might really be imposed to get any change. We have had a month of this, and yes, the school is actively involved and is offering a mentor, but he only has about 2 weeks to clean up his act.

My brother is now on a vocational music course that is costing (the parents) three grand I may sound cynical but I cannot see why they are throwing money at course he will not see through.

I don't see what your options are other than pussyfoot round him (mistake) or read him the riot act (mistake also). I always think that the power of being able to see into the future would be beneficial in instances like this, so that they can see what kind of a "career" dossing in their bedrooms with get them. Obviously not helpful, sorry!

I know NOTHING of teenage boys, so please feel free to tut and ignore me, but could it be that he's depressed? The "can't be bothered doing anything at all" thing does make it sound a little like that.

Have you looked into BTEC media/music courses in your local college? Given his age he will not have to pay (under 18)
my dp was a lazy arse at school and dropped out after AS levels, his music course was the making of him, he does very well for himself now

Does he go out at all? Does he have friends?
I hide away and lack motivation when I'm depressed.

Is he depressed? Take him to the GP right away, best to be sure. If that isn't the case, take away all extras (you are doing well taking the guitar etc... off him), gradually no TV, stereo, radio, laptop etc. In fact, sell them eventually to pay for his keep. Only buy him clothes from charity shops and DO NOT GIVE HIM POCKET MONEY. His EMA will probably be stopped soon (if it hasn't already), and when he finds he is broke he might get off his back side to get a job.

Good plan to take him round the homeless. I think you are doing the best you can. And yes, I think now is early days, but eventually (in a couple of years) if things don't improve you should demand he lives elsewhere.

Salizchap speaks sense :)

Oh Moanranger, this is a really difficult dilemma for you, and I agree with bumperella that depression may be a factor. Also, he may have a fear of failure (which many teenage boys have) which may be making him frightened to even try IYSWIM.

I have taught many bright teenage boys who fail to 'get their act together' and end up wasting their senior years at school and don't really achieve anything meaningful in the way of qualifications. IMO this actually looks worse to potential employers than someone who has left school and worked or done something else useful with their time.

I realise that time is of the essence here, but I don't think kicking him out is the answer TBH- my feeling is life would then seem pointless to him and drink and drugs may then become an issue for him / you.

Is there any way that he could leave school get a job and save a proportion of his wages towards a vocational music course next year with you paying for some of it if you are in a position to do so? This may mean that he is more likely to stick at the course since he has had to pay for some of it, so it's his own money he is wasting. My friend is offering this as an option to her bright, but 'lumpy' son who hasn't made it to college this year but would like to do film-making (and is actually pretty good at it). He gives half of his full time wage to his mum who saves it on his behalf. FWIW, despite my friend's anxieties about the situation I am sure it will all work out okay in the end

If he does end up being asked to leave 6th form college he will, of course, regret it in the future, and it might be worthwhile pointing out to him that this is the only time in his life he will get FREE education, in the sense that you are subsidising his living costs, whereas if he goes back in his 20s or 30s he will find it much more difficult to live / pay for his social life as you won't (necessarily) pay for it.

Moonranger Is it possible to find something that he wants to aim for after 6th form?.. A real reason to do his A levels?..

If he's into playing his guitar, and music, there is the most brilliant college in Brighton, but it is pretty 'rock' orientated, Don't know if that is his style.. Its called BIMM (the Brighton institute for modern music)
(My DS is at the Bristol BIMM).If he's interested i'm sure theres stuff on www.bimm.co.uk or www.youtube.com/BIMMTV

Just think if theres a real concrete reason for doing the A levels, it may get him through?
But i have to say i know teenage boys do seem to go between rage and complete lethargy.. I was lucky with DS1, his only lasted really badly for about a year, but reckon DS2 is gonna drag me through it a helluva lot longer,Can see it already and he's only 12!

Sorry, x posts with lots of people- I must type more quickly!

Thanks for your post on my thread.

If you can actually get him in the car to go look at all the homeless people there is hope!(Mine would refuse point blank to get in the car)It would be very educational and I would endorse you showing him how the other half lives

I've been told that very lazy teenage boys are a standard problem and eventually they will grow out of it.

My suggestion would be to restrict all treats such as personal computer, favourite breakfast cereals, pocket money until he agrees to preform within a minimum framework of acceptable standards. Turn off the heating in his room and make him socialise so that he is not stuck on his own too long. Move the piano out of his room. Check that you are saying nice things as well as nagging things.

Don't actually throw him out as such; maybe you can enable him to live a more independant life style temporarily by arranging him to spend some time with a family friend or relative so that you can both have a time to reflect?

By throwing him out he may sink or swim, but sinking is probably more likely.

I know how you feel. :)

I come from an expat culture where lazy teens get sent to live with relatives in home country and expected to work for their keep, ie au pair or manual work etc.

It's actually quite effective.

Agree with getting him checked out for depression first though.

Rather than a tour of homeless sites is it not more useful to get a tour of the royal college of music at the barbican?

ie - this is where you could be if you work. More motivating to appeal to his interests than to give him an excuse for an "it's me against the world, no bastard understands me" attitude.

They wouldn't even consider him if his school report was shite. Good incentive??

This could have been my daughter two years ago. She had started A levels but by Christmas was very reluctant to go. We discussed options - she wanted to to to college (this was school) and do performing arts. She left 6th form (but I made sure she did extra shifts in her part time job and she helped out collecting my youngest from when I was at work). Last year she did BTEC First diploma, and is now doing BTEC National Diploma (Performing arts) - I am sure there are similar music courses available

Sounds like your DS wants to do music, not A levels. There are lots of further education courses for music that would qualify him to work in the music industry and allow him to hang out with other musicy people as he clearly wants to. You could try supporting his musical ambition rather than throwing him out. He clearly is committed to music, so let him follow that.

Thanks for your really useful ideas. Yes, we are having him checked out by the GP. I like the idea of taking him to Royal College of Music too. Re music technology, etc, I actually tried to encourage him to go down that route, but he said he wanted to go to uni. I think I will follow some of these ideas about making his room less comfy, reducing/eliminating pocket money, etc, so watch this space!

They do a BTEC pop course and a music technology course at our local college.

He would be able to do his own music and develop as a player if he 'Popular music', in his own style or in a group

Successful completion of the BTEC has led to people getting on Music courses (creative/tech courses) at Uni. I dont know if you could use it for straight music course; ask the applications dept of his uni of choice.

Perhaps A levels are not for him. DD2 did a BTech in performing Arts and Musical theatre and did very well. She loved it and although she did do one ordanairy A level she did English which she was very good at. BTECh was much better than doing 3 or 4 ordaimary A levls. She is now at uni and doing very well.

Believe it or not, bearing in mind his age I think you're quite fortunate that booze, drugs etc is not the problem. In my experience (I manage supported housing for people with a history of homelessness) kicking him out would more than likely bring these factors into the equation as well. Try and hold back.

Depression is a possibility, but can often be used as a bit of a 'catch-all' diagnosis, so beware and make sure that the GP is responsible and pro-active with matters like this (incidentally, do remember that you have every right to go and speak to a GP yourself about this issue, without him present even if only to get yourself clued up about possibilities).

He is at an age where he should be expected top contribute to the household, either in finance (not an option without a job) or in time. Who pays his mobile bill? Electricity bill for his instruments? Who bought his computer?

A conversation needs to take place where he is made graphically aware of the link between your hard work and his luxuries, but - and this is the big challenge - not in a threatening manner. Once he recognises this link verbally, agree some very simple, achievable, short-term targets. If he can acheive these then give him encouragement and gratitude (not necessarily reward) - self-esteem is the biggest stumbling block in effecting change in any individual - and then set new targets. If they don't believe that they are worth the effort then they won't put the effort in. If he doesn't achieve these then withdraw some of the fruits of your labour from him, making it clear how he can get them back.

Arrange a 3-way meeting with the college (guess you may already have done this) or alternatively, arrange to speak to an appropriate member of staff on your own. They are used to these issues and may have further advice for you.

Good luck. I was a teenage boy once and I was a complete prat - not dissimilar to what you're describing but with a lot of booze. My folks had every reason to give up on me but didn't, despite us having a pretty poor relationship for various reasons on both sides. They're now pretty chuffed with the fact that I've been in full time work since the age of 19, have managed to buy a house with my wife of 12 years and have a gorgeous DD. Not saying that in a gloating way, but my prospects were probably similar to your son's at his age - don't give up hope.