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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be WILD at the news at 10 wording 'mothers who chose not to work'

314 replies

NotanOtter · 04/10/2010 22:28

who are hardest hit by benefit cut

How bloody condescending...

Nip round here any day and 'choose not to WORK' looking after my kids

Angry
OP posts:
muminthemiddle · 05/10/2010 21:54

YANBU They should not have used the word choose.

NotanOtter · 05/10/2010 22:00

mathanxiety agree totally

It is also still horribly taboo imo to choose to be a stay at home mother because you believe in it

OP posts:
jameelaq · 06/10/2010 01:39

Well you can't have it both ways, can you?

Quattrocento · 06/10/2010 01:56

"It's about keeping on top of routine maintenance, refreshing your decorations regularly, entertaining and having people to stay often and all the things that make a home a living, breathing, hive of life and pleasure rather than a dormitory."

And you imagine that this doesn't happen in the homes of working parents? What vanity!

The house is properly maintained and decorated. True that this is mainly subcontracted, but having decorators come in every summer while we're away keeps on top of things with minimal disruption. Also having a handyman who comes every fortnight makes sure that gates don't stick and chairs don't wobble. As for entertaining, I've just had a houseful to stay last weekend. Lots of fun for all.

So it's utter nonsense to say that houses of working parents are badly maintained. Often if both parents work, they can afford to have things attended to properly. IME anyway.

vespasian · 06/10/2010 02:01

I agree Quattro, I work way over the averafe full time week during term time and my husband works just under with some flexi time. We have no cleaner or help and our home is decorated, we entertain regularly, all meals are made from scratch, fresh bread every day and baking at least once a week. It does require us to put in a lot of hours. I am about to go to bed and started at 6 this morning but it is possible. Not ideal but certainly doable.

fernie3 · 06/10/2010 06:13

I am not offended by the wording as I think it is just a way of saying those who are not in paid work, I think there are many many things which offend me more :)
I was working when my first daughter was born, it was no easier and no harder then being a sahm it was just different - it was harder in that I missed her and I had a boring,low paid job I didn't want to do. It was easier in that the house kept tidier as there was no one in it all day and I did not have to spend much time really entertaining her. I now have 4 children, three that would require full-time childcare, one who would require after school childcare, my last job was minimum wage so if I chose to go back to work i would need to earn a huge amount more to pay for childcare! My husband is over the earning threshold for us to get help with childcare costs and works random hours so can't fit a job around his, so sahm is a choice but if I wAnted to make another choice-i couldn't if that makes sense.

loveinsuburbia · 06/10/2010 07:06

"I'm sorry but my earlier outburst of course related to those stay at home mothers who are able to choose not to work as they are on benefits - a choice I'm afraid many of us don't have. I believe that what the news piece the op related to?"

No, it's related to cutting child benefit for higher rate tax payers. The thing that is upsetting people is that if two parents earn £43k each, therefore having a combined income of £86k, their child benefit won't be cut. If one parent earns £44k and the other parent stays at home, that family will have their child benefit cut.

Child benefit is:
a) available to everyone, working or not. Many many working parents claim it.
b) not 'being on benefits'
c) not enough to live on

The story was about people who don't get any other benefits at all (err because they or their partner is a higher rate tax payer)

OP, YANBU at all 'choose to work/not work' is a value judgement when actually many people don't have a real choice in the matter at all.

TheProfiteroleThief · 06/10/2010 07:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 07:07

LOL Quattro, I am not imagining anything, I look with my own eyes Grin.

I know you think it is absolutely intolerable to entertain the idea that any household where there are not two FT working parents could be in any possible way more comfortable than your own Wink.

loveinsuburbia · 06/10/2010 07:09

"It is also still horribly taboo imo to choose to be a stay at home mother because you believe in it"

But that's not the problem with saying 'Mothers who choose not to work'

The problem is that the SAHMS comprise women who have chosen that and women who haven't. People should not assume and declare that people are doing it through choice.

Xenia · 06/10/2010 07:16

It is a wonderful thing that adults are being treated as individuals rather than women as dependents no men. It took years and years to get single taxation of husband and wife established and we should do all we can to preserve that in the interests of women's rights. If this change means more women go back to work then that's great news for women. They may be forced back without wanting to but sometimes nasty medicine is for your own good and if they have a husband who pays higher rate tax they don't need childbenefit anyway in the same way the poor does. £40k+ is almost double what most people have. £13k a year is the minimum wage full time rate. The £40kers are on nearly 4 times the minimum.

MarshaBrady · 06/10/2010 07:20

My problem with it is that it focusess on not working as if it were the inactivate choice. Puts the woman out of sight too.

Women who don't work in paid employment are doing loads of things for their family they just choose not to work for a wage payer.

MarshaBrady · 06/10/2010 07:21

Going backto work- I presume in an office. Usually working below men. I'd like to see more women run their own businesses do their own thing in hours they want to do it in.

whoneedssleepanyway · 06/10/2010 07:29

but there genuinely are mothers who chose not to work, i don't count someone who doesn't go back to work because the childcare costs are prohibitively high, if you would earn £50 a day and pay £50 in childcare costs there is no choice in the matter.

i would class someone as chosing not to work, who could go back to work and earn more than the childcare costs but decides they would prefer to stay at home and look after the DC. for a lot of people it isn't a choice.

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 07:38

I think families are interdependent and individual taxation of both partners in a marriage is not without its own problems. The economics of the second earner are not the same as the economics of the higher earner.

The trouble is today that the government urgently needs as many adults as possible to work in order to pay into government coffers to get national finances in order and repay debt. I fear this will lead to a lot of very frazzled mothers families who get no net return to themselves from working so hard.

Xenia · 06/10/2010 08:29

But it will help women maintain the positions they have won at work, on boards and even on the shop floor so all to the good. It might even trust some lazy men who are useless at doing domestic jobs into doing more of those jobs.

It is very anti women of cameron to persist with the married couple's tiny pointless tax break as it encourages in a very small way married women to stay at home. Given though it is worht £150 and loss of CB is much bigger it will not have much effect and is just a sop to the middle class richer housewife lobby.

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 08:31

What price those positions Xenia if the net value to the woman concerned is negative?

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 08:33

I do think that the issue of net negative return to women/second earners from WOH is a real one about which there is no proper public debate.

arses · 06/10/2010 08:54

"They may be forced back without wanting to but sometimes nasty medicine is for your own good..."

Xenia, this is quite a paternalistic argument, don't you think? Wee women don't know what's good for 'em but they'll soon learn?

A friend was telling me recently how, in Australia, some companies will hold a woman's post open for seven years. The woman doesn't receive pay during this time, of course, but as on maternity here, "continuous service" accrues with related benefits.

In my job, many of our senior managers have taken a number of years out in their children's early years with no glass ceiling effect. The reason is simple: my job is almost 100% female dominated, so supply-and-demand dictates that appropriately qualified people are not disadvantaged by a few years out of the workforce.

It is not impossible for a society to allow for children to be cared for by a parent in their early years. The answer to women's loss of pay, progression and longer term financial security as a result of time out of the workplace to have and raise children includes addressing the lack of value that is placed on raising our children at a societal level, not merely assuming that if women work all will be well. At a material level? Perhaps, yes. However, there are a great many women and men who would rather not be in a position where they see their children for between a half an hour and an hour a day.

In Ireland, where the majority of women return to work six months post-partum and return full-time, I know a number of families where both partners feel trapped in the earn-to-spend cycle. Spending the majority of your life at work and very little of it with your children in order to pay for a mortgage you should never have been granted is cold comfort because you have retained your 'position' at work. At least part of the crisis in Ireland stems from the overinflated wages of "dinkies" having secured massive mortgages which drove up house prices exponentially.

Domestic economics is a complex area when it comes to women's rights and quality of life. Men's, too, come to think of it. It is inevitably shaped by the larger economic and social forces of its time, of course. However, let's be honest: any drive to push women into the workforce will not be about protecting or salvaging women's rights and positions: it will be about increasing inland revenue. And the men who were lazy will be ever so, which will simply increase the second shift for working women who cannot afford the "shitworkers" e.g. handymen, decorators, cleaners, gardeners etc.

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 13:36

Good post, arses Smile

MollieO · 06/10/2010 13:45

arses I'd love to know what type of industry you're in. Where I work all the men with children have SAHW/Ps so don't have childcare costs to pay out of their salary.

I suppose I do choose to work as the alternative would be claiming benefits. Until the announcement of the CB cut I thought that is what the government wanted me to do too. Confused

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 13:49

Mollie0 - it is what the government wants you to do. It just wants to tax you more on your earnings!

MollieO · 06/10/2010 13:59

Bonsoir there will come a time though when economically it simply isn't worth me working. Now that CB is going I will get absolutely no government contribution to childcare costs and because I am a single parent I won't be able to access the married person's tax break either. Instead I pay more NI, get less childcare vouchers and no CB.

I work full-time to support myself and ds and the 'benefit' of that is I see ds for 1.5 hours a day. That may become less if these cuts continue as I may have to increase my hours to make up the shortfall. Is that the sort of family life this government want to encourage?

Morloth · 06/10/2010 14:02

I choose not to work. I am away of the breathtaking privilege of my situation, but it is totally true.

Bonsoir · 06/10/2010 14:02

MollieO - very Sad for you. It's madness for the government to reduce the rewards of working so much that people would rather be on benefits.