Since when is smoking such a crime?

[HeathcliffMoorland]

I don't smoke. I never have (this is not a reference to the other thread, btw).

I find it unpleasant. Because of my field of work, I am more aware than most people of the health dangers. I would NEVER promote smoking.

If someone smokes in the same room as one of my children, I take the child away.

However, I've noticed a recent increase in the number of people talking about smokers almost like they're criminals, or disgusting people, or generally offensive because they smoke... It's not like they actually want to be addicted (for the most part, anyway).

It really does seem like there's a recent increase in intensity of people's negative reactions to smokers.

People seem very precious about the whole thing, or something like that. Anyone else noticed this?

SanctiMoanyArse, I could probably find a study showing that smoking aids concentration which would be a benefit :)

But I'm not sure I trust that myself so I'll accept 'no health benefit' for smoking.

Thing as as you say yourself that drinking benefit is for those that limit it drastically and most don't do they.

I think the danger to the person doing it is down to them so what matters really is the 'danger to others' part.

Scientists have found some evidence that it's not healthy to spend long periods in a room full of people smoking. I'm sure they are right.

Through the media though (and people trying to trump each other's stories on forums) that has become "everyone knows that if a smoker walks past your lungs can be injured!"

In reality I would think drink drivers kill many more people than smokers do. Not to mention the people coming home drunk and beating up their family. I expect googling 'alcohol fuelled violence' would produce all kinds of shocking figures.

But I'm not ranting about drinkers. Most started with a friendly drink and it got out of hand. They didn't plan it that way. So I don't think the ranting that some do at smokers is reasonable.

'I don't hate smokers, I hate smoking. I don't care if people want to smoke. If they are provided with somewhere where it doesn't impinge on those of us who want to breathe in smoke free air then that's fine.'

• spot on bunbaker.

I don't have a problem with people choosing to smoke - I just don't see why anyone else should have to put up with the effects of their decision.

I think part of the problem is that many smokers know it's smelly and harmful, and therfore choose to do it outside their own home (which sure, offers more protection to their own children, though the risk of them starting to smoke is still higher). However, doing it outside your own home is more likely to affect other people outside your own family which is bloody unreasonable.

You cannot demonise it enough, IMHO.

My oldest brother (48) is dying of COPD and my other brother (46) has serious heart disease and will undergo surgery soon. And they are both raising kids (the youngest child is 6 years old). Kids who possibly (almost certainly with DB1) won't have dads by the time they hit 18.

The more stigmatised it becomes, the less likely teenagers will be to take up the habit (just as happened with regard to drink-driving many years ago). Can't happen quickly enough.

Why do young people still take up smoking though? Do they really think it is cool?

violethill, the trouble with that last bit is that people are being told they MUST do it outside. As you know when it's not their own home it's now a law that they must go outside, but I think most are also being pressured to smoke outside their own home. If they had been left alone then you wouldn't be seeing them so much.

You say "It's pointless to talk about the risks associated with other things, such as driving a car, because driving a car serves many useful purposes"

Well I think it's nice that your car is useful to you, but how does that justify it if your car fumes kill my child? or if someone drives while drunk and runs someone over? Am I supposed to say "oh but the driver did good things with her car so it's ok. Just the other day she drove to the supermarket to get a pint of milk"

I'm not even saying you shouldn't have a car. Just that those who rant about smoking can't seem to see that their arguments would often apply to things they do themselves.

'violethill, the trouble with that last bit is that people are being told they MUST do it outside.'

• Nonsense. People are not told they MUST smoke anywhere! And people have the right to smoke in their own home anyway. As I say, they often choose not to - precisely because they KNOW how harmful it is!

The point about driving is nonsense. I would never drive after drinking. Nor would any sane person. If someone commits a criminal offence by drink driving, or driving dangerously then that's a separate issue.

As for pollution from vehicles - yes,no one likes it, but are yous seriously suggestion all trains, planes, buses and cars are eliminated? Because as long as there is a need for transport, there will be side effects (though of course these should be reduced as far as possible, and I have no truck with people who drive gas guzzlers or fly off on holiday 3 times a year)

So what exactly is the NEED for smoking? When someone can actually clarify a single benefit to society of smoking toxic substances, then sure, let's have a debate. Until then, do it if you choose in your own home. Or alternatively - don't do it.

Drink driving is actually a good parallel for why smoking is so frowned upon. It's almost immaterial that one is illegal and the other is legal. Both are seen as selfish, thoughtless behaviours that have great potential to harm others.

I remember not so long ago how if you objected to someone smoking in a restaurant you were treated as some kind of po-faced, kill-joy. If you asked a co-worker to smoke outside rather than over their desk ditto. We had to put up and shut up. I think smokers are simply reaping what they have sown.

Bunbaker My DD couldn't think of anything more likely to upset her parents so she took up smoking! It's rebellion IMO She soon gave it up when she realised how expensive it was.

Very good point chil1234

It's a very weak argument anyway when the best someone can do is point to other selfish, harmful behaviour, and suggest that 'if one is ok, then another should be'.

Drink driving is vile, thoughtless and socially unacceptable. So is driving carelessly, or too fast. Drinking too much and behaving aggressively or anti socially is horrible too. Smoking is harmful, disgusting and socially unacceptable. Why do some people find it hard to understand that it's perfectly possible to dislike ALL those things?

I don't think smokers are singled out at all. I guess it's just that if you choose to do it, you probably convince yourself you're being picked on. Just like speeding drivers whinge about getting caught on camera!

I just wish to reiterate that I don't smoke and don't like smoking.

However, walking past someone smoking isn't going to make me fuss, and more than walking past an unwashed person will.

Many people really do get uppity over having to walk past smokers.

They also come out with things like 'why don't they just quit?'. I'm fairly sure it's not that easy.

I just don't get this attitude.

I don't think smokers are singled out either.... well, not outside the confines of MN message boards. They obviously will feel penalised every time the budget comes around, those 'THIS WILL KILL YOU FOR SURE' messages emblazoned on packets are a kind of slow torture, I expect, and the relatively speedy introduction of legislation to make the number of places they can smoke fewer and fewer must be tough to accept. But I think smokers held the balance of power for far too long and this is just nature righting itself :)

Really? You've heard people saying that when just walking past a single smoker?

TBH that wouldn't bother me hugely, but walking past a large group congregating in a doorway is just foul, and as for people who smoke in children's playgrounds, on the beach etc - disgusting. Ditto for unwashed people. If I had to sit in close proximity to someone who can't be arsed to wash themself adequately then it's horrible - selfish unpleasant behaviour, just like smoking.

Comparisons are pointless.

When I have a drink I don't regurgitate a small amount of it and dribble it down a non-drinker's throat.

When I drive my car I don't pull up on the road and force someone who prefers to walk in to the car for part of the journey.

But when you smoke you force any non-smoker in your vicinity to inhale something they have chosen not to inhale themselves.

But loads of things force people to inhale things they haven't chosen to inhale! Including factories that make useless but well-liked products. And again, I've never so much as tried a cigarette.

Yes, I have heard people complain loudly walking past a single smoker. Even walking past a group... well honestly, other things bother me far more.

But honestly, I can think of many many things that smell worse.

And I really, really don't think smokers go around thinking that COPD, CVAs and IHD sound like fun.

'But loads of things force people to inhale things they haven't chosen to inhale!' - why does this make smoking ok? I still don't get this argument.

I'd love it if pollution could be eliminated completely, but unfortunately that's not possible. And while some products may be 'useless' most industries produce things which are useful. We also need transport networks, and electricity etc etc. Why does anyone need to smoke?

I never said smoking was okay.

I never said it was necessary.

My point is, it seems to be disproportionately frowned upon.

I won't take it as a personal insult if someone smokes near me. Once, a bit of fag ash got on my DD1. I wasn't best pleased, but I wouldn't fuss over it.

I just don't get the outrage, I suppose.

I don't care if people smoke, it isn't my problem but the only people I socialise with who smoke are some family members. None of my friends smoke because quite frankly smoker reek to me so i have actually made friends with any smokers for years.

What's happened is that we've agreed that smoking isn't socially acceptable any more. We've passed laws to support that. Some people take this as a green light to be unpleasant and dish out verbal abuse but that's not the majority reaction. I suspect most of us are simply happy to enjoy a meal in a restaurant without the acrid smell of burnt tobacco wafting in from the smoking section.

What is tragic is the amount of young people taking up smoking. It's almost as they want to be ill and waste their money

Ripeberry, I agree completely.

It's because it is now considered to be anti social - so people respond as to other anti social behaviour.

Re the suggestion that the dangers of passive smoking are a myth the NHS don't agree

There is a proven link to cot death - albeit that there are other reasons, why would you increase your childs risk?

My mums smokes and it's revolting - stinks and makes me feel sick and could kill her. What's to support??

'why would you increase your childs risk?'

Pocketmonster, yet again, I don't smoke!

If you weren't referring directly to me, then I would just like to say that not everyone has children.

For the record, I don't let visitors smoke in my house.

I have gathered that it is now considered antisocial, but that's just a fancier way of saying what I was saying, IYKWIM.

So to rephrase, what has triggered this recent classifcation of smoking as antisocial behaviour? Health risks were known a fair bit before I saw any of the attitude change.

Health risks to themselves were eventually understood. I remember people coming round schools in the seventies and showing us what tar did to a piece of cotton wool in a jar. Now we understand the health-risks to others ie. us. And whilst people are realtively relaxed about the risks others want to take with their own health, they get very funny if they think someone else's risky pastime is harmful to them.

It was always antisocial in the sense of it being smell and cough-inducing. But it crossed a line when it became harmful as well.

Yes, but walking past a smoker is no more harmful to me than walking behind a car with the engine switched on.

In this situation, I don't see why someone would justify it by saying cars are useful.

It's not the dislike I don't get. It's not the fear - I understand comepletely if someone is being smoked on directly and repeatedly.

It's the shock and horror at having to walk past a smoker that I don't get.

heathcliff I didn't say you did smoke...

Exposing a baby to secondhand smoke has been proven to increase their risk of cot death - therefore parents feel strongly about people smoking in the vicinity of their children.

Anti social behaviour triggers reactions from people - for example if somebody is sitting in a restaurant drinking a vodka it has no impact on me. If they drink too many and as a result throw up in my front garden/throw their takeaway cartons in my garden/fight or argue outside my house late at night and I see them, I will give them an earful. Ditto someone smoking in a place that impacts me or my family.

It's revolting, smelly, anti social and harmful to everyone's health. If you want to do it, then keep it to yourself - that would be my message to any smoker. (not you Heathcliff as you don't smoke )