To think they cannot possibly keep their dog

[Yayforbooby]

Have namechanged for this as don't want to be outed in RL as this is causing enough arguments already.

My db and sil have a five year old staffordshire bull terrier which they got from a friend four years ago. He is quite a large boy and although very friendly with people, tends to be quite aggressive and domineering toward other dogs. On one occasion he pinned down
my westie who shit himself with fright and started biting his neck . My db and sil justify his behaviour by saying that he is just trying to dominate weaker dogs and this is perfectly acceptable canine behaviour . I should add that he has not been neutered.

Anyway, they have gone on holiday and left the dog with their friend who called me yesterday morning for advice. She said she took the dog for a walk that morning and he had attacked another dog. She said that in the tussle the woman who owned the other dog had dislocated her shoulder and am ambulance was called. Friend then said that the dog had had a fight the previous day with a dog in the park but no harm had been done so she wasn't going to mention it.

The thing is, my db and sil are ttc and I am so very worried about the safety of a baby around this dog. He really is out of control and the friend thinks this is not new behaviour. I really feel they should get rid of him or put him to sleep.

Aibu?

You said in your OP that the dog isnt human aggressive just dog agressive. There's your answer, Keep him on a lead and maybe put a muzzle on him. Dog training classes are also a wise idea.

I think they're bringing in laws about dogs attacking other dogs, so they may find that they'll soon be held responsible for this sort of thing.

The dog sounds like he wants to dominate, and yes, that might be a risk to the baby. Dogs treat children differently to how they treat adults because babies are new members of the pack and therefore 'beneath' the dog in the pack.

On the other hand, presumably they're sensible enough to keep the dog away from the baby. We've got the gentlest dog in the world and she was still never left alone with my nephew until he was old enough to defend himself (since she's a small dog, this was when he was about 3). I know she would never hurt him, he's even trodden on her accidentally and she just gave him a hurt look and wandered off, but responsible dog owners know dogs are still animals who live on instinct.

He is friendly around people, but we have no idea what he is like around babies or toddlers. He literally leaps on other dogs and pins them to the floor scaring the owners half stupid. What gets me is the way the behaviour is justified and there is no way that a baby's safety can be guaranteed around any dog let alone one like this.

Skyrg I think a law like that would be great.

Canine logic's very different to humans! We've got a springer spaniel (4yo) and while she's adored, even we believe no dog can be trusted round children 100%. (And also, very small children take time to learn about how to treat them!) Basically, we've taken advice from everywhere we can think of, and we've come to the conclusion that you can't leave it to chance. Never, ever leave a small child and a dog together unsupervised. Muzzle the dog is the only 'guarantee'. The shoulder dislocation thing isn't really the issue (the other owner should have let go or avoided the whole thing to start with). Best to keep it on a lead, and avoid the busiest times for dog walking and popular places (especially, crucially, when families are out - imagine that nose in a pushchair??!) until some regular training is undertaken.

Bear in mind, some people are silly enough to say 'oh, he/she would't harm a fly, they don't mean it!' This will always happen. Our dog is pretty much always docile, but we've learnt not to say things like this. You can't be complacent with dogs, only work out who they see as the leader of the pack and get that person to do the majority of the disciplining. And don't humanise them!!

Also, they live in a small two bedroom flat and is would extremely difficult to keep him away from a baby.

I'd suggest they take him to dog training classes as he clearly needs training.

They should also take in to account that due to their dog's behaviour a woman was badly hurt and in the future their child (or anyone else) could end up also hurt because of this dog.

Our german shepherd would never I think intentionally hurt DD but she once trampled over her when the doorbell went. DD wasn't hurt but was upset. The dog was only doing what she does best: a newcomer arrives and she goes to investigate who it is. She only did it once mind. She learnt her lesson quickly. This dog might only be "doing what dogs do" but that doesn't make it ok imo.

This is interesting:
www.dogmagazine.net/archives/5996/new-bill-to-tackle-irresponsible-dog-owners-passes-next-stage/
I'd like to add that I don't read this magazine regularly, it came up on a google search!

The only thing you can do is just wait and see how the dog reacts to the new baby. I have a dog agressive Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but she is very gentle and patient around the children, she's very similar to skyrg's dog from the sounds of it. So just goes to show that the "domination" theory is flawed.

There is a bit of stealth revealing going on here, maybe because nobody is agreeing with you.

Dog aggression and people aggression have no connection. Staffords are usually wonderful with children they are not called the 'nanny dog' for nothing.

They were bred to fight other dogs, hence they are often bot very good with them, makes perfect sense really.

Would agree that his trining probably needs sharpening up and that he should only be handled around other dogs by those who can cope with him.

He shouldn't be allowed to injure other dogs, that is not acceptable.

There is no need to get rid of him.

Dog to dog aggression is different to dog to person aggression, as has already been said.

This dog needs training and heavy duty supervision on walks - a muzzle and a body harness would be a start. A harness allows the owner to forcibly move the dog from behind if necessary, and many walk better in one than a collar alone.

Of course, there should be some caution exercised around the baby, but if the dog is normally placid with other people, then there is no need to get rid.

My dear-departed Staff was an absolute bastard to most other dogs, and all cats, yet seemed unbothered by small children.

We had a bitch staffie admittedly she looked scary but she was absolutely fab with our but we never took her for granted. She wasnt naturally agressive to other dogs but if any dog approached her who was agressive she would react. A male dog would have more natural aggression due to hormones.
We understood it was in her breeding so it was up to us as owners to control her.
Consequently we never let her out of our garden unless she was on a lead.
They aren't necessarily going to be irresponsible parents if they have this dog but they must take sensible steps to control it.
I think they are irresponsible leaving their dog with a friend who can't handle it properly and they must take steps such as keeping it on a lead at all times
and possibly muzzling it.

Staffies were bred to be fighting dogs (against dogs, not people) and those instincts are hard-wired into them. Even the most placid staffy shouldn't be trusted with another dog - responsible breeders won't let you have a staff pup if you already own another dog as even if they grow up together, they can just "turn" at times. Not all staffs are like this, but it should be expected of them in the same way a labrador wants to retrieve and a collie wants to herd.

However, that's how they often behave towards other dogs. This behaviour does NOT automatically translate towards children - indeed, responsibly bred staffies are one of the kindest breeds towards children. Staffies get a bad press because they are often aggressive towards other dogs (and then people react like the OP, and assume that that means they will be aggressive towards people), and because unfortunately they look similar to pit bulls and other banned breeds. And of course they are the adopted breed of the chav, and are often trained to be aggressive towards anything and anything.

OP: do your research before becoming hysterical about the dog. It is not automatically going to become a danger to the baby (and a baby that hasn't even been conceived yet, at that). NO dog should be left alone with a baby even for a second.

I cant keep away from this thread but just have to say you should have a look at my profile for a picture of my dog agressive staffy with my DS.

ABF - your children are lovely, not so keen on the pig or the spider.
Where are the pics of the hamster? It surely deserves to be in the family album.

Not got rid of if he's not shown to be aggressive to people but certainly muzzled when out.

There has been an increase in attacks on guide/assistance dogs by other dogs and the results are devastating for both guide dog and owner.