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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this child was right to question the teacher?

25 replies

Cortina · 01/10/2010 11:35

Had a coffee the other day with a friend who has an 12 year old DD. This girl has a female PE teacher who sounds pretty horrendous, the teacher frequently loses patience with the less sporty in the class, singling them out for punishment or what sounds like humiliation - checking all have a shower army style with a checklist and standing over those who hover in towels. I remember similar from my school days. Let's call the girl Rose so I can explain more easily.

Rose is picked on by this PE teacher apparently. There was an incident last week where Rose was singled out for talking in a crowd when around 20 of the children were laughing at a joke someone else had made. The teacher said something like 'how dare you talk when I am trying to give a lesson, Rose it is always you isn't it? How dare you Rose, I am sick of you'. Rose blushed and said nothing, she is a very timid girl and neither a trouble maker nor a goodie two shoes type. Very sweet actually. Rose said it is odd that the teacher never comments on anyone else's chat/behaviour etc.

Things came to a head yesterday. Rose was picked out by the PE teacher apparently and had to run around field 5 times as a punishment. The PE teacher asked for an apology for Rose's behaviour and it seems Rose refused? She uncharacteristically spoke out and asked why the others hadn't also had the same punishment. This has riled the PE teacher further who threatened to call home and asked what Rose's mother would say in this event. Rose said calmly that her mother would wonder why as Rose isn't usually in trouble. PE teacher was furious.

Rose is now very upset. Do you think the Mum should contact the school? Is Rose in the wrong/insolent?

OP posts:
mumeeee · 01/10/2010 11:41

I think the mother should contact the schoo and find out the PE teachers side of the story. If it is really like Rosie said then she should make a complaint.

Longtalljosie · 01/10/2010 11:43

No. I was in the same position at school with a teacher. Everything that could possibly be all my fault, was, even if I was just in the same room.

The mum should request a meeting with the head.

Serendippy · 01/10/2010 11:43

It sounds as if the teacher is being particularly short with Rose, however I don't agree with the attitude of 'but everyone else was doing it, why did I get in trouble?' If you know you were doing something you souuldn't and you get caught, tough luck. If someone else doesn't get caught, lucky them. Take responsibility for your own actions rather than complaining when you get told off for doing something wrong.

FedUpWithLies · 01/10/2010 11:43

I agree with mumeeee. If it is as it seems, Rose was right to question it and well done her for standing up for herself.

Her Mum needs to meet with the school though, to ensure that Rose isn't singled out even more as a result of standing up for herself.

UnderneathTheStream · 01/10/2010 11:44

Well Rose shouldn't have argued the point but raised the unfairness at some other time for instance with the head of PE, imho

GypsyMoth · 01/10/2010 11:44

yes,request a meeting with the head......my dd challenges authority alot,but the head has to agree that alot of the time,dd is right,but has to support his staff....so i support my dd

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/10/2010 11:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NordicPrincess · 01/10/2010 11:46

no rose was absolutly right! and well done to her mother for bringing her up a strong and independently minded young woman to have the confidence to say so! id be very proud if my child did that and id praise her for it. Id be down on that pe teacher like a ton of bricks, her name wasnt mrs perry was it?

sounds a lot like my old pe teacher...

katkouta · 01/10/2010 11:47

Oh God! . I was often singled out and also called insolent for asking why?
Her Mum does need to go and speak to her if it continues.

vbusymum1 · 01/10/2010 11:52

Yes, whether Rose was right to argue back (and I think probably not) the mum should ask for a meeting with either the PE teacher or her and the head but be sure to go without preconceptions just in case Rose's telling of the story isn't the whole truth.

NordicPrincess · 01/10/2010 11:56

why wasnt rose right to argue back against what she felt was injustice against her? i hope she dousnt carry that idea with her through life, you have to learn to speak up for yourself

SchrodingersCat · 01/10/2010 11:56

I think that it was good for Rose to stand up for herself but I do think that she has gone about it the wrong way.

A child should not be rude to an adult. I do think that there should be some formality in regards to teachers. Rose may not respect the teacher but she should respect the role.

Rose should have mentioned it to her parents and then it should have been dealt with by the head, head of department and Rose and her parents.

But on the topic of pe teachers, why are they always arseholes? We had one (Mr Newman -who was also sleeping with students) who made us do skin fold tests in public. Nothing like having your fat levels read out in public.

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/10/2010 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hullygully · 01/10/2010 12:00

Good for Rose.

I know and trust my dc and if they told me something like this, I would definitely go and see the PE teacher (in a very loving non-confrontational but let's be clear that this is to stop kind of way).

ballstoit · 01/10/2010 12:03

Yes, I think Rose was right, and why should a child be polite to an adult who is bullying them? Even if she had said sorry she wouldnt have meant it would she?

If I was Rose's mother I would ask for an appointment with the head and get it sorted out. Otherwise I guess the teacher will be worse with her from now on. PE seems to be the only subject where it's ok for the teacher to embarass the kids who arent very good at it. It wouldnt be ok for an English teacher to have a go at a kids for not being able to read would it?

trice · 01/10/2010 12:04

I would be questioning the whole ethos of the p.e. department. Why is it acceptable to send children running around the field as punishment? is this not physical punishment?

Anenome · 01/10/2010 12:10

I had one of those! She hit me on the arm with her ring binder for talking...it wasnt even me! As she hit me, I found my arm going up and...hitting her back! Shock

she never said a word.....probably because she knew she had been in the wrong....I felt bad...but really....what is it with some of these teachers! They are entrusted with vulnerable kids ...can't cope....pick on them...and then they moan the kids misbehave.

taintedpaint · 01/10/2010 12:12

I had almost this exact situation when I was at school. I was bullied horrifically by the female PE teacher because I didn't fit her ideal mold. I spoke up to her, but unfortunately it didn't get me anywhere, she just increased the bullying and belittling. In the end, my mum had to go into the school to make a complaint (and three further complaints when the first official warning wasn't adhered to). Eventually I managed to avoid the old witch when I went into the sixth form and put the whole sorry mess behind me, but I did hear a couple of years ago that she was fired. It really wouldn't surprise me if her conduct was to blame. Some teachers think they can get away with murder because they are in a position of authority over people who are taught to obey them without question. To exploit that is disgusting.

YANBU to think that Rose was correct and Rose is NBU to stand up for herself. Tell her mum to go into the school and make sure it goes on record that she is complaining. She should give the situation a couple of weeks to improve, but if the teacher is still out of line, another visit would be in order.

BigusBumus · 01/10/2010 12:13

I had the same treatment from a male teacher at school who bullied me incesantly from the 1st year until I was expelled in the middle of the 3rd year, aged 13. I wasn't a trouble maker and was OK at school but this man was unfortunately the deputy head and he was the one to expel me (for the pathetic reason that it would be best if I started again elsewhere). Being a public school he got away with it and I was moved.

My mother never once went into school to fight my corner and I still can't talk to her about it without getting angry now. She just assumed the teacher was right because he was the teacher.

So yes, the mother shoud absolutely go in and speak on the girls behalf.

Incidently a few years ago I wrote to that bully teacher explaining how I felt and asking why he did it. (He's still at the school). I never got a reply. Coward.

Original poster
Cortina · 01/10/2010 12:20

BigusBumus that's shocking. I feel for you. I hope you didn't feel this was your fault on any level, or let this have a negative impact going forward?

I was bullied by a couple of teachers at school and more generally. When the teachers ridiculed me it gave even more of a green light to the children! One teacher came to see me when I was 16 to ask for my forgiveness, he said he'd realised that what he did was wrong (he used to imitate my accent to the whole class). I said yes when I meant no. I just didn't know what to say. I can still see him swinging his legs as he sat on my desk lid in an attempt to be chummy. Angry

Anyway, moving on I will pass on the good advice here to Rose and Mum. Thank you.

OP posts:
Hullygully · 01/10/2010 12:25

Bigus, give us details and I will kill him. And yours Cortina.

Mammie81 · 01/10/2010 12:27

I hate it when adults are immediately believed over children. Adults can lie and be bullies too. Just because children are smaller doesnt meant they cant tell the truth. Good on Rose for sticking up for herself! I had some awful PE teachers who hated me because I just wasnt sporty. And my mum would beleive every word because they were adults in authority!

I'd totally support Rose in this.

UnderneathTheStream · 01/10/2010 12:31

I think that both peer bullies and teacher bullies should be dealt with through the proper procedures. Telling a pupil to argue back against a teacher bully is like telling them to hit back against a child bully. It escalates things and doesn't help long term.

Also - sometime teenages think they are being picked on and singled out for unfair punishment when they are not. How many of you have teenagers who have wanted the latest thing and told you EVERYONE had them and you were just picking on them/ singling them out?

Not that I'm saying that teacher-bullying doesn't happen - I'm just saying that teh truth needs looking into and there are proper procedures for these things.

Deliaskis · 01/10/2010 12:35

It is clear that the teacher is singling Rose out and yes it is bullying. However, I don't think Rose was right to raise it in that way.

I don't disagree with those that say we should learn to stand up for ourselves, and why should a child be polite to a teacher who won't be polite to them, but the thing is, when we raise an issue in that kind of confrontational way, we lose the moral high ground in my opinion. We are right to stand up for ourselves, but also need to put ourselves and our behaviour beyond reproach, or as far beyond reproach as possible.

It seems that the fact is that Rose was talking, and for that deserved to be reprimanded. The reprimand however was not fair given that everybody was doing it, but similarly, Rose's response was not the right way to handle it.

I agree that teachers/adults need to earn respect, but children also need to do this, and we also need to learn that sometimes in life, we have to be polite and respectful to people we might not like or respect all that much (like around half of my managers in my working life, or in the case of a friend of mine who through no fault of her own has ended up on the wrong side of the law). Dealing with these kinds of 'difficult' people (especially when they are in a position of authority) is a pretty important life skill in itself.

However, yes it is bullying and should be raised with the Head of Department, or Head of School or whatever.

D

UnderneathTheStream · 01/10/2010 12:37

Wot she said

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