Just going to have a little rant about friends and playdates

[letsblowthistacostand]

Sigh. I have a lovely neighbor who I've become good friends with. She has 2 DDs, I have 2 DDs, it's been a good relationship up til the last few months.

Her DD1 (A) has gotten really aggressive. She is 2.9 and her behaviour is age-appropriate but oh my goodness it's unpleasant!! My DD1 is in school so I mostly see her with DD2 in tow. DD2 is 2.1 (only 8mos between them but it makes a big difference at this stage) and A just terrorizes her. DD2 is small for her age and A is big for hers (bigger than my 4yo) and A's language is very advanced so she thinks of DD2 as a baby. She's always yanking toys off DD2 and saying "she can't have that because she's a BABY" which as you can imagine hits DD2 in 2 places.

I never invite them over anymore because A is then mean to DD2 in her own house, taking her own toys off her and shoving her around and I can't tell my neighbor "your daughter is being really unkind, please leave." So we go over to theirs and invariably end up leaving after A has pushed DD2 to the ground and then spat at her, although after that incident I'm not taking DD2 over there anymore.

What bugs me the most is that my friend doesn't do anything about it. A will take something off DD2 and her mum will tell her to get something to trade. Fine with babies, not with 2 year olds who are usually playing with a specific toy for a reason. A is very rough and there are no consequences, with the shoving incident her mum put her on the naughty spot as we left but you could tell that it wasn't a regular occurence, that A had no idea that her behaviour was unacceptable.

Anyway, just ranting really. Have had to decline an invitation today as I just can't stand it anymore even though I'd love to have a cup of tea and a chat! Said I didn't think the girls were very happy to play together as you can't say we'll only come over if you shadow your daughter the whole time and stop her being awful to mine. Have made plans for drinks without children instead!

I know what you mean, we've had similar problems with my neighbour who has 2 girls the same age as mine. Her little girl was very 'mine, mine' etc for a while and was constantly pushing and shoving my elder DD and taking things from her. At first DD used to take it, then she started hitting back, and for a while we couldn't let them play together at all!

I think you have to bite the bullet, and there's nothing wrong with gently telling off your neighbour's child, especially if she's in your house, eg saying ' no, X, I think Y was playing with that, why don't you play with this one...' rather than letting things be snatched! I found it kinda shames the mum into paying more attention to what her child is doing!

What we found helped with ours fighting was encouraging them to take turns, or dividing up the toys fairly at the beginning (eg, giving them 5 colouring pens each in separate tubs rather than making them share one tub). And trying to get them to play with things there are 2 of, eg if I go over to her house I'll take DD's own pushchair and dolly to avoid fights!

Also, we found that they play together better if we are not in either of their houses, so we take them to the park and let them run around together and they are happy as larry! (Just don't give them a ball to share...)

I don't understand why you can't say anything to your neighbor? If someone takes a toy from my DD, I ALWAYS say "No sweetheart, DD was playing with that, it's not nice to snatch please give it back." They do. None of my friends have ever been upset by it, and some were grateful as they just didn't know how to deal with it. I always play fair though, and tell DD if she wants something she has to say please, but it doesn't mean the other child has to give it to her. If she takes something, I ask her to give it back.

When DD has been shoved and the other child is being unkind, I have been known to say something like no, you can't play with DD if you're not going to be kind. Other parent usually steps in at that point. I have no problem with asking someone to leave if they won't stop their child bullying mine.

stropzilla bullying is a strong word !

I thought it was appropriate when I saw the words "aggressive", "terrorizes", "pushed her to the ground and spat at her" and "shoving". I realise the child is only nearly 3, but this sort of behaviour is not acceptable to my mind in anyone, and if not checked will result in a bullying older child.

I had this with a neighbour's children, and in the end I had to tell her that I felt her children weren't terribly keen on mine. She was desperately grateful as she thought I was avoiding her rather than them!

It sounds as though meeting without the children is a good compromise, and may be a temporary one, too. I suppose she "took" the new arrangement well? If so, there's nothing further to add except perhaps to try the two girls together again in a few months, in an informal setting, such as a park, so one side can walk away easily.

Sometimes kids are so imcompatible or a friend's pareting style is so different that you have no choice but to let the friendship slide or make an effort to see them without any kids around.

Thanks for the replies.

I do say something if my friend isn't there, but A is quite forceful and determined and I don't like to manhandle other people's children! At a children's party a few weeks ago DD1 was playing with a toy camera and A wanted it so she just shrieked and started to grab it. I said "DD1 is playing with that, it's not kind to grab" but she ignored me, so I put my hands on DD1's and didn't let A take it. She did her little spitting thing and huffed off.

When my friend is there, she excuses A's behaviour before I can say anything. They have a fairly fabulous indoor ride-on toy and it lives behind some other large toys in their dining room. Last time we were there, DD2 went to some trouble to move the other toys to get it out and as she moved the last one, A swooped in and grabbed the ride on toy. My friend laughed and said "Oh (my)DD2, after all your hard work!" DD2 was distraught and we left shortly after that.

TBH I find this child's behaviour deeply unpleasant and it's nothing I would tolerate in my own children (who are not angels by the way!!) A is very clever so she could understand, if it was explained to her, that if someone has done the work to get a toy to play with, you don't get to snatch it away. It's not just my DDs either, there was another friend over the last time and she and I spent the whole time saying "X was playing with that, it's not kind to grab."

So I don't know. Am just going to try to see them out or without children.

can you go to soft play or something? that way the kids don't really need to play together, but you and the other mum can chat.

At this age, maybe we can't teach our DC to share and be nice all the time, because they are still largely thoughtless and heedless little creatures of instinct. However, it's too old not to be starting to teach them, and we can teach them to remember, and respond to, consistent interventions about sharing and saying sorry. My DS will still shove/snatch sometimes, but, crucially, seems resigned when I intervene, and I hope he appreciates it when I intervene on his behalf, too! It takes consistency, not the sort of on-off, laissez-faire attitude your friend seems to be taking.

The only way you can comfortably have your DD play with the other child is if you hover over the girls constantly to monitor behaviour -- and be prepared to intervene (very nicely, but definitely intervene). If you feel you can't do that with the other mom present then you simply can't meet up your DDs much for a while.

Not sure that things would be any better at soft play, that often brings out the worst in many tots!

My DS got labeled a "horrible little boy" and "bully" by a deluded another mum. I wasn't impressed -- most little boys have moments of behaving like thugs at around 2.5yo, you don't need to label them.

You are all right, I know you are all right. We had a playdate today with another friend who has 2 DDs the same ages as mine. Nice children and her DD2 (Jalmost 2yrs) is such a nice little girl. No grabbing, happy to do parallel play, if getting a toy out will try to find 2 so that both can playjust pleasant to be around.

But my DD2 spent the first hour screaming in terror every time J came near. I was running around sorting out tea and snacks but when I was finally able to get down and play and show DD2 that J wasn't out to get her, DD2 visibly relaxed and started interacting a bit with J. And we had a really nice playdate. The DD1s played beautifully, everybody sat nicely and ate their dinner and nobody got told off in the 3 hours they were here. I'd actually forgotten how nice a playdate could be.

So I'm going to limit time with my neighbour but there's really nothing else I can do.