to think that most welsh people should speak some welsh

[mumof2children]

i am no way fluent in welsh by know very basic welsh.

but sould more welsh people speak some welsh

Sounds about what I was taught in the 80s except we had German too. No music?

Windward, you know you're being silly about Jerrais. Besides, they do have road signs in Jerrais in Jersey.

And curry, it's nice of you to want to print things in all the languages in the UK, but Mandarin isn't a native minority language is it? On second thoughts, let's not go there.

No curry they do English Language the way other kids do English Language. They don't teach them to speak English, as it is correctly assumed that they can speak it already.

YABtotallyU!

Haven't read all of the posts, but as someone who had to learn the ridiculously useless language for ten years at school, I think it's a waste of time and energy for anyone to learn the language.

Welsh should be left to die with dignity!

We had one hour lesson of music a fortnight, I forgot.

I went to a school in Abergavvenny at one point and they had drama, Swimming, Needle work, Cookery, Italian, spanish, German. I was even allowed to do brail and sign language in lunch it was brilliant I hope to move there with my children one day. At the moment dps work is to far and while the dc are young I want to stay close to my family untill we are both working.

The school was ten times nicer than the ones I was used to and 3 times bigger I was amazed.

The other thing that bothered me was I had 3 hours of Maths and English a week and 4 hours of Welsh

Sorry Abergavenny .

Bigof, Welsh was the dominant subject in my school too. What a waste of time. I really, really resent it. Totally useless language.

Sounds like a lovely school, Noorks. Abergavenny would be a great place to have a family.

On the subject of Welsh School Education, I'd like to pose a question that I have wondered for a long time.

I once nkew someone who was taught in a Welsh School. I made an comment about a percentage of some sor, nothing to do with this arguement.

He replied with a question as to what a percentage was. Confused, I tried to explain, but he made out he had never heard of such a thing, as there was no equivilent of it.

Was this because of some sort of personal problem in the subject, or is there genuinly no translation for the concept? I don't know.

But it did lead me to wonder that if it was a translation problem, surely there are a number of other translation problems in the things they are taught? By this, I mean, yes they will have equivilent results in an exam that is in Welsh, but can they carry forward these skills into the working world where they have to do this work in English?

I may totally wrong on this point, but it is something I have always wondered while we're here.

It was a lovely school I assumed as it was my first glimpse out of the valleys that that is what all schools were like?

DH calls me bach. I love his sense of optimism

I actually watch S4C. Not that many programmes as I don't watch that much TV full stop, but probably an hour or so a week. DH watches a lot of S4C, things like Clwb Rygbi, Ralio, Fferm Ffactor (there's no accounting for taste...). MIL has to watch Pobol y Cwm every night. The DC watch more of Cyw and Stwnsh than any other children's TV.

So S4C is put to good use in our family, not teaching learners the language but allowing us to watch TV in our first language.

Oh, and the wall to wall Eisteddfod coverage every August is fantastic

BigOfNoorks Are you still in Abergavenny? i'm not far from there myself. I guess you are talking about King Henry VIII comp.

karma, my Dad is Welsh and grew up in Wales. His mother was from England so didn't speak Welsh. The rest of his very big extended family were native Welsh speakers. But the long history of discrimination against Welsh and Welsh speakers convinced his mother that her son learning Welsh would be a disadvantage, and she persuaded my Granddad.

That kind of thinking is no longer valid, thank heavens. But people who trot out the 'there are only X per cent of Welsh speakers in Wales' should remember why and how that happened.

No KarmabelieverI dont live there now. I was moved back and for refuges so I left but yes that is the school I was refering to. Are your children going there I had to move around in the refuges a lot but that was the best high school I saw by far I live in Merthyr Tydfil now.

I do want to move back there though thought it was a lovely place, and the people were great. But me and Dp don't drive so until we learn he cant travel for work.

edam it happened because English was seen as the language of commerce and naturally parents wanted their children not to be at a disadvantage. I would think that speaking Welsh was discouraged at school, because the children could already speak it and the only way to get them to learn English to the same degree was to make it the language used at school. I will agree that the approach could have been better.

That said, I do think that people are unfair after all this time to blame the English as it was their own choice to not teach their children the language of their nation. Children were taught in Welsh schools, by Welsh teachers and had Welsh parents. At some point the Welsh have to accept some responsibility for the facty that the majority choose not to learn the language.

I am English, but my DCs were born here and I actively encourage them to learn it, because I think it is important for them, even if it gives them no advantage should they leave Wales as adults.

BigOfNoorks I went to King Henry and have fond memories of it. I live the other side of Aber now between Aber and Brecon, so my DCs don't go there. Aber is still a nice town although arguably not as nice as it used to be. If you ever come back give us a shout. I've never met a local MNer before!

I will do to hear it is not as nice, I had my heart set on that. I will definetely give you a shout I have never met a mumsnetter either I didn't think there were any near by .

Some of the primary schools have been closed, which is a consideration if you do come back. It's still beautiful here though.

I think it's a fine thing that people in Wales and Scotland are keeping their languages alive, and I don't grudge the money to support that. Whether it's worth bringing Cornish back to life or if it would be artificial after all this time, I'm not so sure.

But anywway, the Welsh and the Scots have to want to do it; it can't be an issue of what they "should" want to do, so maybe it is BU to insist on it. But it seems as if the Irish language is a chore for most of the Irish, not something that everyone or even anyone cherishes. Could that be because it's being forced on people?

I wonder how you make a language spread, assuming a fair number of people speak some of it. Could someone at a workplace in Wales say "Let's try to speak Welsh every Friday" or something like that? Or have a sign in a pub saying "Please speak Welsh if you can"?

I don't think teh scottish government should be spending so mucho cash on promoting gaelic.

The main purpose of language is communication.
If the whole world spoke 1 language communication would be vastly improved and I think that would hugely outweigh any loss of parochialism/ local feeling etc.

Eisteddfoddau = Feis?

'Well no as Lithuania and Latvia are sovereign countries. Wales isn't - it's part of the UK. And it's fair to say that the majority of Lithuanians or Latvians don't speak Russian as it isn't the official language of that country where-as the offical language of the UK is English.'

Wales wasn't always a part of the UK, just as Latvia and Lithuania weren't always a part of the Soviet Union. Nor were they always sovereign countries. The old borders of Lithuania (the old borders of most of continental Europe in fact) were very different from where they are now. This is Poland-Lithuania around 1600 -- they were loosely united then. There are plenty of places even in Russia where people might lay a claim to be Lithuanian based, or any number of little-known German nationalities (Hessian, anyone?)

Much of the debate about Welsh has already been done to death in Ireland.

I learned Irish in school and never regretted it or considered it a waste of time, any more than I consider DS learning Latin a waste. How can any intellectual activity be a waste? Does education always have to serve an immediate practical need? If so, I should have confined my efforts in school to learning how to clean toilets.

Rargian allai'm darllan 14 tudalen o hwn chos dwi'n dechra corddi hefyd.

Welsh has recently come off the "endangered" list but it is still considered critical. We still have an uphill struggle to secure it for future generations.

I have no idea what has been written in the last 8 pages cos I stopped reading, so very sorry if I'm repeating stuff.

Very interesting to know that children who have a bilingual education in Wales do better across the curriculum including English and sciences, in exam results, that those who go to an English only school.

Research on bilingualism from all over the world also shows that people who have two languages are less judgmental of other cultures and has more empathy towards other people.

Don't understand the problem of having two languages myself - I'd love to be multi lingual

While I'm at it, Microsoft and Facebook have enough respect for those of us who do speak the language of heaven, to offer their programs in Welsh, and you might have spotted my message in chat the other day saying that Spotify now has Welsh music for all to enjoy

Karma - are you really not aware of how the Welsh were threatened and bullied out of speaking their own language? It wasn't a case of teachers merely discouraging Welsh. It was prohibited. And if you were caught speaking it, you were hit. And if you persisted in speaking it, you were beaten. That's just one tiny facet of a huge campaign to stamp out the language. If you don't know about this, it's worth looking it up - a horrifying and ignoble tale.

I'd just like to say that although I'm not Welsh, I absolutely love Wales. I own a caravan which is sited on a caravan park in Tremadog and the surrounding countryside is beautiful. Nearly everyone speaks Welsh, even in nearby tourist spots Porthmadog and Criccieth most people are heard speaking Welsh.