to think Gifted and Talented in schools should be scrapped?

[MotherGaGa]

DS is 9 and now in year 5. When he was in reception/year 1 he was identified as being G and T in literacy. I was a bit unsure about it at the time because I hate the idea of attaching labels to children and also was worried that it would mean extra pressure on him.

I read lots about how G and T children are often just developmentally ahead of their peers and that eventually the differences even out and most children end up on a similar academic scale. And this is basically what has happened to DS.

The pressure of being labelled G&T has given him really high expectations of himself and he is now getting frustrated because he actually isn't that far ahead of his peers anymore. He gives himself a really hard time when he doesn't get things right. He gets very upset in class and at home and is not enjoying school at all.

Its like this label almost sets children up for a fall. The reality is that very few children are genuinely gifted and talented and to be labelled as such only to struggle to keep it up in later years is very damaging to a childs self esteem

Take cover OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, it's all a bit of a perplexing minefield and G&T seem to vary wildly from school to school/class to class. I'm not sure how helpful it is to anyone really.

My son was G&T in year one then I think he was taken off but we don't know and don't care. He's happy and doing v well at school.

Hold on was this just a stealthy post to let us know your son is G&T...

The labeling is daft. However, recognising and providing support for children who are very bright is not.

God no!!! I don't think D&S is G&T, I think the whole thing is a farce! Schools have to identify a certain percentage of kids who are G&T.

Do you mean ds?

I do mean DS!

Hi gaga- my sister was a g&t literacy too. My mum was pretty clear that she wasn't any better than anyone else,probably because one of the teachers called me retarded in school.
She still is very clever, although I caught up with her grades wise, and later got a scholarship to an Oxbridge uni. She does get verrrry stressed about achievement and what others will think professionally speaking.
I suppose you just have to be careful not to pile on the pressure too.

It depends on how it is explained to the child. My DS has been on the G&T register but we've made a point of making sure he knows that it is very much an 'at that time' thing. That children develop at different rates, sometimes ahead of the crowd, sometimes behind.

He's just moved up to secondary so I have no idea if he is still thought of as G&T but we both know how it all works.

I do think children need supported learning appropriate to their abilities and G&T is meant to be part of that but I do think it is badly named and handled.

Yes so G&T in one school could vary hugely from G&T in another so pretty farcical even on that basis.

Gaga, if I may call you that, you sound very sane.

I try so hard to let DS know that all we want is for him to try his best and be happy. I just want him to enjoy being a child rather than haing to worry and stress at such a young age.

What a sensible post! I think you're right, kids develop at different rates and just because in one yr they are leagues ahead in reading, it doesn't mean they're the next Booker Prize winner and nor does it mean they'll always be ahead of the curve in that skill. I would try to nurture any advanced ability without adding pressure by labelling it, acknowledging when the ability seems to be on par with the rest of the class and just enjoy any aptitude without turning it into something so elitist as G&T branding! I'm with you!

No need for flaming OP here...she isn't saying her son is a genius

Depends on how it's done really. If properly done, it should be a means of offering support to children whose needs might not otherwise be met. But as a parent, I think you can do a lot to make sure the label is not damaging, by keeping it in proportion and explaining its limitations to the child. If this is properly done, then it doesn't have to be any more damaging than always being top in tests or at the top table.

We never used to mention it much to DS but he was often taken out of class to undertake G&T activities with a few other children so it has been hard for him to escape it. I guess each school haddle it differently and DS's school really pilled the pressure on. Wish I told them I was against it at the beginning

Dd1's school won't tell you if your child is on their G and T register. They don't tell the child either.

Dooin, your DD's school sounds lovely!

My DD was identified as G&T from dot.
She actually is.
I thought it would stretch her and give her a focus; so I was pleased initially.
It did bugger all; it was just a label and did not significently aid/advance her education.
If it were anything other than a cosmetic exercise, then firstly the children identified as G&T should not be aware of it, labelled or identified to their peers as such and it would need to be reviewed annually on that basis.

Children change throughout their school years and carrying a label establishes a position that does not take account of a very dynamic situation.

They don't tell you at ds's school and it can only be a good thing. Not too sure that they do a great deal either though.

I think the label is a bit of a farce. DS1 is good at maths IMO, the school have him on the G&T register for maths but it's fairly meaningless and DS1 frankly, doesn't care! He knows he finds maths easier than some of his classmates and him and a couple of other Y3's work with Y4 for maths, but that's it. No pressure is applied from the school at all as far as I'm aware.

All I care about is that he is challenged by the work, he certainly isn't a 'Gifted' child, he's just quite good at maths.

No idea where he gets it from as DH and I are crap at maths but that's another thread

It all depends on how it is operated by the school.

My DD (yr5) is on G&T for literacy. She gets a few extra tasks to stretch her and maintain her interest.

My DS (yr2) is on the Reading Recovery scheme.

Both of my children are getting the support that they need, which makes me very happy.

I was pushed up a year in secondary school because I was top of the class in every subject in the first year.

I went from being happy and popular and loving school to being lost and lonely. Shunned by year below and new classmates. It took a year to find my way socially and my education never really recovered.

Luckily they don't do this much any more to kids!

I think it can be a big mistake to label children it can give them a false sense of the value of application.

But for some parents it's a huge thing. I have a friend who is bragging about her dd being put on the g and t register. I think bragging about it is vile personally!

how did your ds even know?
DD1 is on it. she knows that every now and again she goes off in a little group with a special teacher and does some different work. she knows it is because she is "a good reader"

that is it
i hardly think it is applying any pressure on her. i think it is great - bright kids who find everything easy at school need motivating. when she was refusing to do her homework last year the only thing she was bothered about was not being allowed to go off with Mrs S.

the school is very dynamic with the group. of the 6 who were in the G&T group in reception, 4 remained in Y1 with 2 new added. it wasn't a big deal (for the kids, not sure about the parents...)

One of my DD's contempories was also G&T (but better than mine according to the Mother)

Last year the poor child failed all the public entrance and the 11+.
The "first" fall in expectations was accompanied by her charging up to her DD at school collection time and shouting in her face " You've only gone and failed haven't you".

With a Mother like that; she'll do well to recover.

Hi I am a teacher and in charge of GT in my dept. I agree there is an awful lot of nonsense surrounding the handling of GT in school. Labeling children is definitely bad. Challenging and supporting children in a way that is appropriate for their ability is good.

Don't know if it's a good idea to tell children they are GT. Research shows that telling children they are good at something doesn't motivate them to work harder. It often can make them complacent, or anxious that if they don't do as well in the future they will be letting teachers/parents down. It's much bettter to praise children when they have worked hard as this is something they have control over.

In my school we do offer extension activities to GT students, but we try to make them availiable to any student who find they activity exciting.

DS has brought home certificates from school with 'gifted and talented' programme written on the top. The school has teahcers from the local high school who come into the primary to do activites with the G&T kids. They make such a big thing of it there is no way I could have prevented DS from finding out.

"Last year the poor child failed all the public entrance and the 11+.
The "first" fall in expectations was accompanied by her charging up to her DD at school collection time and shouting in her face " You've only gone and failed haven't you"" That is shocking!!!

Children should not be told that they are on the G&T register, in the same way that children should not be told they have SEN. They should just be given the support and the register should just be so that teaching staff are aware.

Some schools have to label top 2 children in each class or a percentage as G&T so it can mean that the children are not even particularly bright compared to all other children but are brighter than their classmates.

I think it's a piece of nonsense. I'm a teacher (in Scotland, though, where G&T doesn't exist) and I know my class really well, know each child's abilities and differentiate the work for them accordingly. I don't need labels to give pupil X some more challenging work or pupil Y some extra support - I just know my own pupils and get on with it.