to think children ought to have 'live' music in school, as well as CDs ?

[Clumsymum]

I'm a school governor.

Our schools part time pianist has retired, and at last night's govs meeting I asked whether there were plans to find a replacement. I feel it is important for children to see someone making music.

I also think school concerts/plays are much nicer if the children are singing along to a live piano (or guitar or other instrument). It's also easier for a pianist to adapt/help if the singing goes wrong, rather than a CD just going on !!

However, the teacher who runs the musical theatre group said "children can be MUCH more creative using recorded music"

And another member of the board suggested I was "reading from the School's good practic e handbook of 1956" (which I felt was quite offensive actually).

Soooo, am I BU ??

no harm in asking for a volunteer if the school agrees to pay for the CRB check.

i think you are right, that is the ideal

but who are these horrible rude people and did you wait for them in the car park and punch their lights out whilst chanting "Mozart is genius you fucker"

Not sure TBH. Our DD has never been at school in the UK so I don't know whether it is normal to have a pianist. None of the schools I attended did but that was inner city London and 30 odd years ago.
I do think it is great if they can actually see someone making the music though.
So, in summary, I am not sure if YABU or not.

With Peter Tong....get in there and ask other parents...also ask what's happening to the money that paid the pianist? It cocld be spent on regular visits and workshops from a variety of musicians.

On the one hand I totally agree with you - but having met with teachers last year who claimed they didn't actually know what "weeding" was and have never planted anything - so couldn't discuss plans for the school "garden" with the PPA - I suspect that the pool that some schools recruit from may not include ppl who know anything about music either - I guess schools have to prioritise the key skills and an ability to play music (or garden) may have to be very low down the list.

... how about looking for some talented parents to volunteer to play during lessons??

No you are not. I am a non musician and had to do a year as music co ordinator. Trying to teach children songs from a CD is OK but doing it for a whole year was really difficult. The school now have a music teacher to teach singing for an hour a week to the whole school and the standard of singing has improved dramatically.

better to have a solid backing track than a dodgy incompetent pianist imo. Accompanying is a skill which sadly many pianists (and organists) don't possess..

Agree to ask among parents for a volunteer though.

YANBU.

However, particularly if the pianist in question was rather "old school", the school may be looking at more creative ways to introduce live music. I wouldn't make it a make or break thing to have another pianist - yes, it's great for the kids to see someone making music, but accompaniment CDs can be great too, if they have a range of different instruments on them etc, but definitely underline that you feel its important for there to be live music in school, and if there isn't going to be a replacement pianist, what other plans do they have?

I agree, and IME the children prefer it too - both as an accompaniment to them singing or just to listen too.

CDs definitely have their place, but I would also like to see more live music in schools.

At DD's school they almost always have a teacher playing the piano in assembly - either the music teacher or one of the other teachers who can play. Or one of the children who are learning an instrument will play as assembly starts and/or finishes.

At the infant school I work at it is almost always a CD. There is a teacher who does play piano and she has played a tiny bit - normally just for the year she works with though for their school play, rather than all the time or for general assembly. It was lovely recently when a small group of Y2s played the violins for assembly and then a litte Y1 boy stood up and sang solo to the children leaving assembly. Should happen more.

You're really unlucky because in the average staffroom there is usually at least one teacher or teaching assistant that can bash out a tune on some instrument or other. And yes, speaking as someone that has done a lot of singing of one sort or another, it is nice if you have a real person at the helm rather than a recording all the time. I agree with asking around the parents... there will be someone.

Chil - there may be one that can "bash out a tune" - but whether they can competently accompany is another matter.....

And when you're accompany a bunch of 4-7yr olds even more important to have someone that knows how to accompany - at least adults can (usually) carry on and work out what they're doing

I'm amazed that none of the teachers can play the piano, of the 4 teachers in my DC's school 3 can play the piano pretty well (in addition to other instruments).

They do use CDs sometimes though just to provide a variety.

You need both ideally. If you've got one staff member who can play the piano things can get desperately unfair on them - they never get an assembly as release time (most schools cover them with a rota to give staff the odd 20 minutes free), you never get to properly be able to crowd control your class within rehearsals etc etc... it just goes on with stuff like that.

On the other hand CDs can be a pain if you're just wanting to go over and over a bit of a song that requires practice, the flipping thing always goes missing just when you need it and the kids tend to slack off if you're using the vocal version of a track because they know they can hide behind St Generic's School Choir giving it some welly. I do however quite often resort to sticking the school production accompaniment CD on in the background while the kids are working on an afternoon in a last-ditch desperate attempt to get the song words embedded in their heads! Unfortunately it usually means you end up catching yourself singing them around Tesco and looking like a right wazzock.

You need both really - but if you're after a pianist - it needs to be someone competent and confident enough to do it. Seen too many colleagues go white as a sheet on Christmas play evening when they have to play in front of an audience.

I can read music and note pick to give kids the melody line of songs, I'm confident enough singing solo to teach tunes that way or play the guitar - but I often joke I really could do with learning to play the piano (god help us all), but quite a lot of particularly infant teachers aren't even as confident as that to cover music.

Sadly music tuition cuts in the 80s and since probably mean that fewer and fewer teachers coming into the profession will be able to play the piano, guitar or indeed the ukele . . .

I've taught in 4 large London primaries now where not a single teacher knows how to play the piano/ and instrument to a competent level.

Especially in more deprived areas where parents cannot or will not pay for private lessons it's not unusual. I had no opportunity to learn an instrument at school, and I doubt many staff members did.

That's so sad. CDs are really useful, and great for repeated practice/things where you need exactly the same speed etc. every time. But live piano or indeed anything, is so good for children to hear and so nice for them to have an accompanist who responds/reacts to their singing etc. If not piano, are there any staff who play guitar? Is there a local music service from which a pianist can be bought in for a couple of hours a week by the school?

"and so nice for them to have an accompanist who responds/reacts to their singing"

agreed - which is why I think that no pianist and a CD is better than one just that can "hammer out a tune"

I've done a fair of accompanying and always found it absolutely joyful, but I'm a bit odd (and never learned to play 'properly'). As others have said, it doesn't suit everyone and CDs seem an easy solution. No substitute for live music-making in my book, though!

Might be worth asking around churches (particularly if your thrust could be "It would be dreadful if children at xxx could no longer sing a hymn in assembly").

Does the music teacher not have an instrument under her belt? Presumably she is highly musically knowledgeable if she can judge which is the most creative method.

Unfortunately, this school has never had assemblies where they sing hymns , as was pointed out to me at the meeting.

However, in the early years, DS did get one singing lesson a week around the piano, and school concerts were accompanied by the pianist, not in the last 2 or three years tho' .

The school doesn't have a "music teacher" as such, just a couple of teachers who run a musical theatre group after school for those who want to join in. During actual school time, each class teacher will teach singing as best they can, usually using CDs.

I was told at the meeting that some of the teachers can play the piano, but I am in school a lot of the time (I do their IT support), and have never seen/heard any of the teachers playing it. They never do for school concerts/productions.

I have to say that I am disenchanted with the school's attitude to music generally. They have outside teachers coming in to teach guitar/violin/clarinet each week (20 min lessons for groups of 3 or 4 children at a time), and the children taking those lessons get to perform at the end of term. But when DS progressed beyond that level, and we took him to private lessons, school has completely lost interest in his music making. This is a point I have prfeviously made with his class teacher, the leader of musical theatre group, and at govs meetings, suggesting that children who take music lessons outside school should be involved in school concerts etc.
But apparently it's "too difficult".

There are times when I find the role of governor very frustrating ....

I was music co ordinator at a primary and played the piano for assembly, hymn practice, concerts, pantos, Christmas, harvest etc etc etc. It gives the children SO much more than a CD. When I left, they didn't advertise for a music specialist and got an NQT in (because of cost presumably). From having a Very Good at OFSTED for music, the children don't even sing in assembly any more. So, so sad :(. The head didn't feel it was as important as getting in to lessons three minutes earlier. Children LOVE singing, once they are used to it and it does wonders for their sense of community. If we are not careful, the entire musical tradition of this country will be wiped out within a few years because schools are content to let it slide. We will be left with the X Factor as out musical heritage. The thought makes me almost suicidal!

YA so NBU.

Also meant to add, thge musical theatre group activities don't include any instrumental playing.

Their production of "Joseph" in the summer term was all done to a "karaoke style" soundtrack from the CD, which was played far too loud at the actual performances, and drowned out the childrens efforts.

I despair, frankly.

Aries girl, that's really sad to hear. There are so many programmes around like sing up etc that we're told promote this stuff but it sounds like they don't really help unless the schools/heads are receptive to it already.