AIBU to think this mother is horribly WRONG (hypocrite alert)

[proudnglad]

Ok so yesterday I called for a ban on gender threads. Now, this one is an extreme and unusual one so I think I am allowed a hypocritical U-turn.

A mother in Grazia today says she has not told anyone (except very close family) the sex of her toddler and doesn't intend to do so.

She wants 'it' to be gender neutral so that 'it' doesn't conform to stereotypes etc etc.

Where on earth is she going to send 'it' to school where 'it' won't get bullied or ridiculed or alienated?

The fact that I have to call a child 'it' is awful in itself.

Does anyone on here understand this or defend her decision? Show yourselves!

"However this was almost 20 years ago, before the pink programme got going."

Really? It seem to have got going pretty well up in the little corner of the NE of England I lived in. Had to wear dresses, frilly socks, pink, ribbons, all the bloody time.

I think it's cruel.

oh and for the poster above who says the pink revolution doesn't last long.

Well as soon as I could as a child I dressed in jean, dark coloured tops, frumpy clothes. Did that until about 2/3yrs ago.

Now I've gone more girly girly - still won't wear a skirt, but there's a lot more pink in my house - I've kind of embraced it with a passion (helped my DS2 whose favourite colour is pink ). Pink mouse (computer ), pink boots, pink converse, pink trainers, pink moible, pinky/red laptop....ermm I'm sure there's more

However, I do agree that challenging gender stereotypes through talking WITH your children, not imposing some other 'neutral' one on them is important. We talk about why pink is used for girls things, how you can still like things traditionally for boys such as Ben 10 or scary films if you are a girl, and mine also had quite a mixed up idea of sex (i.e. as in biological sex) for a while, both believing that they would grow up to be daddies (as daddy was at home for a while when they were about 2/3). So, I'm all for challenging this stuff, just not imposing strange and restrictive circumstances on your child which will mark them out for your beliefs.

She's bonkers and is obviously projecting her own fucked up shit on to her poor kid.

Nutjobber.

Oh for goodness sake! What's wrong with being a boy or a girl? Gender exists, how ridiculous to try and pretend it doesn't. Instill a sense of confidence, sensitivity, equality and responsibility into a child, regardless of it's sex and lead by example. Don't make them feel like their gender is something to be ashamed of or hidden.

Well said, that woman. Man. Person. Gender neutral being. Robot?

It's cruel and a tad narcissistic me thinks, is it the same woman who was in the Guardian family section last saturday, wouldn't like to be seated next to her at a dinner party .Horrible to experiment on your child, why not dress up androgynously (sp?) herself??

Dd 4 loves make up dressing up clothes, tottering round in my shoes etc.etc. I tbaffles me at first because as i child i was v much a tomboy and wouldn't go near a skirt, in fact I wanted to be a boy . Like the typical trying to be PC anxious first time parents we were we bought her all gender neutral toys. However at nursery, she only played with dolls, at other peoples houses she only played with dolls. At home she was bored and clingy no interest in the bricks and lego and activity toys, so we conceded and bought dolls and a pram. From the age of 18m it's pretty much all she's played with.

Ds arrives a year ago and has played with all the activity stuff of his own volition. he loves toys where there's some sort of logic to them ie cup stacking, lids on, pushing buses and cars round with play people in them. He LOVES his fire engine my sister has just bought him for his first Birthday. he's welcome to play babies (God knows we have enough of them) but he'd rather play with the other stuff.

Go figure.

Gosh how on earth did she/will she potty train?

"I'm a BIG IT now" the toddler proudly declares to the world?

Poor child.

"Horrible to experiment on your child, why not dress up androgynously (sp?) herself??"

Indeed, MinofMancunia!

cory "While I dislike the intense gender stereotypes which are prevalent in the UK today, I always think if you want to rebel you should rebel in your own person, not use your children. Why doesn't she cut her own boobs off and wear gender neutral clothing and ask to be referred to as "it"?" - Well said.

I find this very weird and dare I say it creepy. There are many ways they can avoid their child feeling pressured to fit into gender stereotypes - what they are doing here will simply result in a child who will be treated very strangely - surely a lot of people will assume 'they' are a hermaphrodite or something? And they will be viewed oddly because of that. So how will that be a positive for 'them'?

I am sure the feminists will tell me why I am wrong, but I do also feel 'vive la difference' to some degree - women and men are different and whilst I do not subsicribe at all to the pink brigade, I want my daughter to celebrate her womanliness (she is only 7mo now FGS what a weird thing to type!!!). I have had to pull my DH up a few times for saying things like "If she was a boy I'd give her my old lego to play with" - WTF?!?!?!?! so I don't want her to be stereotyped at home but there are limits I feel.

This whole thing reminded me a bit of The Wasp Factory - not the same scenario, but just as messed up IMO.

sloany that is my mother exactly. When very tiny I had smocked dresses which I think were presents, but as I grew older she cut my hair short, and her idea of a girly look was a pleated kilt type skirt.
How I longed for long hair and pretty clothes, not pink necessarily, but girly.
I had shorts for summer, trousers for winter, boys brown lace ups . The boys shoes were the worst and they weren't hand me downs.

I am nearly 50 now, have long hair, and still wish for a tutu.
Shall we start a support group?

Bunty - isn't it funny how we react to how our parents dress up.

I grew to hate being dressed "girly" - not so much pink, but lots of frills, and lace, and pretty hair, and fancy smancy shoes (virtually all second hand/made by my mum)

I craved jeans and baggy "boy" clothes.

And spent nearly 20yrs after dressing in an very unflattering way - basically looking like a frump.

I still don't wear skirts but I definitely buy things that are more "feminine" now - and show my figure off (ie that I'm a woman ), and buy more pink/girly stuff. But it took a lot of work to tell myself that actually it was good to like this stuff and that actually some of it was nice.

Ok just read the feature properly.

The mum says that when she was a girl she was a tomboy and wanted to play football with the boys but couldn't/didn't so felt alienated. And later she felt pushed into 'female' study that she didn't want.

Well - my dd is a total tomboy. So we don't 'make' her wear skirt or pink. Her friends are all boys and she plays football. I will encourage her to do anything she wants to do as she grows up, and show her that her gender will never hold her back or box her in (I have a good career that I love that's not 'female' )

Why is that so difficult to do? If the child is indeed a girl (who the feck knows) then couldn't she have done the same? Why the obliteration of gender?

I agree, proudnglad. Here at Diziet Towers Mr Diziet & myself have had exchange of views viz a viz ds1 joining after school dance club - he is the only boy in the group. Ds2 loves dancing so I thought it's be a good idea. Plus the ladies love a man who can cut a rug! DH kept on about 'he's bloody playing football next term' and so on. I said, 'ok, if he wants to!'

FFS, does any of this matter, girl? boy? boy? girl? Hermaphrodite? Surely... Happy? Contented? Well Cared For? These are what matters.... Or am I missing the point, Sheep follow the crowd, informed humans blaze a trail... regardless of gender or associated stereotypes.

the second the child gets to nursery, the teacher will say "Are you a boy or a girl?" "I don't know." "Do you have a tail in your pants?" "Y/N"

"then you are a X. you go in X toilet with all the other Xs"

End of silly mother's rule.

PMSL FindingMyMojo :o

Colditz - ha! Exactly.

Diziet - loving the cutting of a rug!

INSANE is the word I would use.

I get the whole not dressing a child in just pink or just blue and stuffing only Barbies or only Army Tanks at boys or girls.

But this is taking it stupidly and damagingly too far.

Poor little child and weird crazy experimental mother.

I used to be mistaken for a boy until I was around 6 years old as I wore boys' clothes handed down from the neighbours and had short hair.

I HATED IT!

I am not at all girly now, but I do think that gender is an important part of one's identity. To recognise that is not "stereotyping" at all.

How weird, this mother doesn't trust herself as a parent enough to ensure her child doesn't conform to stereotypes? Surely only the child's parent can ensure non prejudiced attitudes to opportunity? Personally I just go with whatever my dcs want, without prejudice. DD is very very girlie pink, but then she has three brothers. DS3 likes to wear hairclips and have toenails painted, DS1 wore a hairband to school!

I think it's an interesting idea in theory, as gender stereotyping can potentially be harmful, but I don't think you should use your child as a social experiment - you have no idea what effects it will have on the child long term and so to take the risk is just plain selfish imo. You're doing it for yourself, not for the child.

Why is gener stereotyping so bad anyway?

Sorry, but if we believe that male and female sexes are equally valid, what does it matter? It shouldn't matter what we wear, or what stereotypes are ingrained on us, because both have value, in their own unique way. IFSWIM???

IYSWIM, soz!!!