over my mum's smoking - or am I being a bit PFB? (bit long, sorry!)

[glitterjo]

I am 7 months pregnant and live about 450 miles from my parents. My mum can be a bit of a nightmare and is often very negative. But I try hard because I want to have a good relationship with them, particularly now I'm going to have a baby. Anyway...

My mum and dad both used to smoke loads. My dad gave up about 10 years ago. He has pretty severe asthma and although it has improved dramatically with giving up smoking, it's still around. My mum still smokes, though admittedly a lot less than she used to. She does still smoke in the house around my dad and is utterly unlikely to stop doing that. She's a pretty selfish person, really, this is just one little manifestation of that.

They came to stay recently for 5 nights and she smoked outside (I have 2 stepkids and although they weren't around when she was we wouldn't dream of letting her smoke in the house). That was fine for 4 of the nights but on the 5th it was raining hard and I think she was a bit surprised that we didn't suggest she smoke indoors, though she didn't say anything (directly...).

DP very occasionally smokes, usually the odd roll-up at night - just one, when he does, and outside, obviously. When I told midwife this she said that the current guidelines were to change your top after a cigarette and wash your hands and face before you touch the baby. He's totally fine with that. So I haven't quite worked up the courage to tell my mum that she will have to do this too, but I will...problem is that I was looking for some studies to explain to her properly why I want her to do this as I thought it would help. I don't actually think she will have a big problem with doing this but I wanted to back it up just in case. Came across a good study (though now I can't find the thing...will have a proper search again and put the link here) that explained it well but also talked about how toxins linger in carpets etc. She's not likely to actually smoke around the baby in her house (I don't think) but obviously does normally smoke in the house, and won't go outside so those toxins will be there. We won't be up there that often but are planning to go when the baby is about 4/5 weeks old for a first visit and now I'm feeling totally paranoid. I'd like to book into a cheap hotel nearby (funds are very limited but there are a few Travelodges etc not far away) and frankly I think my partner would rather we weren't staying there as it's always so awkward anyway, but I am wondering if I'm really being a bit PFB about it and if the baby will actually be totally fine in the house for a couple of days.

I had a terrible cough pretty much all my childhood because of the second hand smoke at home - disappeared as soon as I moved out. It's not quite the same now but I still feel a bit yucky about exposing such a little baby to crap I am trying so hard to avoid at home.

So - PFB or reasonable? Opinions please...

The baby would probably be fine but it's not something I'd like to do anyway. If staying in a travelodge would make you all feel more comfortable and clean and you can afford to then go for it. PFB is no bad thing sometimes.

If she had been smoking in the house up until when you arrived, it would be full of smoke. I would go for the Travelodge option, and this is said as someone who does (very occasionally) smoke! The smell of smoke in houses makes me gag.

Don't think it's unreasonable at all. Travelodge sounds like the best option by far.

I wouldn't stay in a house with smokers, so I think you're entirely reasonable in wanting to book a travelodge. Tbh the occasional exposure to a house where someone has smoked is unlikely to do any harm, but its more the thought of the disgusting smell which would put me off. I would be upfront and say you're staying elsewhere because of the smoking issue. The only thing she might come back at you with is asking why you're happy for your dh to smoke (albeit not much) - so maybe it's a good incentive for him to kick the habit ?

My mum finally stopped smoking around 6 months after ds was born and I think our displeasure at her smoking around him was a factor in her decision. Her partner still occasionally smokes in the house and it winds me up, but it's his house- we open all the windows etc and my mum does often suggest he do it outside- on a warm/dry day he will.
This is the generation who do not think anyone has the right to tell them what to do, man (ie libertarian hippies) so I am quite pleased they've moved as far as they have on this issue, especially as mum smoked throughout pregnancy, breastfeeing and generally all over the place around us afterwards, as did dad, grandparents and everyone else!!!
Thankfully, times have changed!
I don't think it's pfb to not want your child to be around smoke at all, I think it's worth taking a bit of a stand on and going to the Travelodge. You may generally be more comfortable there anyhow.
On the other hand, I think the changing your top etc even after you've been outside business is rather extreme! Never heard that advice before.

You're not being PFB at all. I have stayed in smoky houses with my DCs in order not to offend by going to a Travelodge, and I feel crap about it and won't be doing it again.

YANBU. I wouldn't show her studies though - to do so gives her the impression that the topic is up for debate.

washing your hands makes sense as your fingers are touching your mouth but to change your top is over the top,but if your mum is ok with smoking outside I don't see a problem and if you don't stay in her house on visits what is the problem,does she visit you and tell you what you can and cannot do in your home .

oh, this is reassuring, I was dithering loads about posting this because I felt that maybe I was being a bit of an idiot about it. After 5 miscarriages I'm not sure I've quite got a hold of what is normal protective behaviour and what's just being a bit mental.

This isn't the study (and I take your point, loveinsuburbia) but does have the advice about changing tops etc because of particles clinging.

healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=a4c1f00b-d245-44f2-a90e-20b047f84a6a&chunkiid=489750

Violethill - not at all happy for DP to smoke, but he does it so rarely and is so wonderful in pretty much every other way that I don't go on about it. He does know I hate it though. And I told him that he would have to smoke at least an hour before going to bed (he normally smokes right before) which I think will make him think twice about it too.

XP with lilyliz - yep, she does visit me and tells me what I can and cannot do in my own home. Which is one of the reasons she very rarely visits. And why I would like to go up there - particularly for the first visit - as then I can control the length of the visit. She's not ok with smoking outside in her own house (which is, in my opinion, a bit crap because of my dad's asthma, but it is of course her house). Normally we would stay with her and money is so limited that to stay in a hotel will be a bit of a stretch but I wasn't sure if it would be the right thing to do or not...hence the post.

Ah - this is it. And now I think I've actually figured out how to post links too:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100208154651.htm

I would stay in a hotel. If you don't want to make it about the smoking you could make up something about the baby not sleeping well and not wanting to keep them awake. Although I probably wouldn't bother.

When people smoke in the house everything smells. Whenever I stay with my sister I have to wash everything I take with me when I get home, even if it hasn't been out of my bag. It's disgusting. There is no way I'd expose my child to that, not because I think it would harm them, but because who wants their baby to smell of smoke? Yuck.

My dad lives alone and he always smokes outside, whatever the weather is doing. He realised one day when we were still at home how bad everything smelt and just never did it again.

YANBU. Your story sounds exactly like ours, we simply do not stay at my MILs due to her smoking in her house. We had a premature DS1 and had some breathing problems after birth but regardless I wouldn't want my newborn any where near fags and their consequences.

Fortunately you call the shots on this one and not your mum, after a few refusals of cuddles/visits she should soon get the message, good luck

YANBU-it is vile. I don't think that smokers realise how much they stink-even if they smoke outside.

I wouldn't even visit a smoker's house with a 4 week old never mind sleep there. Stay in the hotel OP.
I was wondering about the changing your top thing. My sister & her partner both smoke outside but her new baby sleeps in the room where they hang their clothes (on rails, not wardrobes). Is there anything in the research about that? How long do the toxins in clothes last?

This is an interesting topic - my parents smoke, and I would be v interested in seeing the link about face/hand washing and top changing to show them nearer the time. I want them to hold the baby (and they'll want to too) but I think there will be some resistance to smoking rules!!

I think if the baby doesn't have their face pressed against the clothes it's probably fine. I live two minutes walk from a very busy A road and the particles from that are probably just as bad.

I wouldn't stay either - I don't like houses that smell of fags (even though I smoke but only rollies - can't bear the stink of 'real' fags)

"When I told midwife this she said that the current guidelines were to change your top after a cigarette and wash your hands and face before you touch the baby."

Don't smoke, never have done, parents stopped before I was born, don't think my grandparents smoked (certainly not in front of me), have never been in a smoking environment, don't know anyone who does, etc, etc. Hateful stuff, won't be in a building with it.

All that said, I'd love to know the basis for the advice you've quoted. Clothing contamination on that scale implies that cigarettes are as dangerous to a child as serious, serious infectious agents. Even some fairly nasty carcinogens, for example benzene, wouldn't be considered a risk in this way. If the worry is a volatile carcinogen (which one?) then what level is present on clothes, if it's a sold carcinogen (which one?) how's it going to get into the baby's system? Given the carcinogenicity of second-hand smoke is controversial, and the evidence for it is contested, I suspect this isn't wildly evidence-based...

yanbu - my dad smokes and I can smell his smoke on dd when he doesn't change his top before holding

Tokyo, I was told the same thing and apparently it's to reduce the risk of cot death vs cancer: worries that inhaling toxic chemicals might affect the airways, or something like that?

I guess it's possible. The levels you'd get from that seem incredibly low, and although vehicle pollution is a lot safer than it was I would have thought that walking down a busy street would leave as much on your clothes. The rate of cot death amongst parents who smoke indicates a relative risk of about 2 (see here) which is low, so a very small extra risk. I suspect it's theoretical and precautionary, rather than based on any evidence. Can't do any harm, though, and anything that persuades people to stop smoking can only be a bad thing.

can only be a good thing, of course.