to shop at Primark

[Mamumu]

A few years ago I read Naomi Klein's "No Logo" and was shocked to learn where clothes and other stuff came from. Today, I find myself shopping at Primark, main reason being that it's cheap and I find that what you get is similar to what's in H&M and other hight street chains (only that they charge more, but in the end it all comes from the same place).

Anyway, I always feel guilty when I find a bargain, like a jumper for £4 or a tee for £1.50. But I've recently had a look at Primark's website and found that they seem to be working hard to fight slave work - www.primark.co.uk/Ethical.

What do you think? Should we believe them or not? Will this stop my remorses? How do you deal with it? Unfortunately, I can't afford buying ethical traded / cruelty free clothes, if I could my dilemma would be over!

On a similar subject I watched that Food programme last week about imported tomatoes from Morroco. The presenter mentioned how much they earned, about £10 a week or something. However that is 25% more than the average earnings so it's comparable to someone in the UK earning about 25 grand which isn't exactly poverty line.

The problem I have is noone puts the wages in context of the country so you have no idea of the value of it to the workers. Just makes it sensationalist and means people tune out of what is a real issue.

Should confess though, I have shopped in Primark...

No, 2p was off the top of my head. I've got lots of work on today so don't really have time to dig out all the facts and figures for you, but if you're interested just google ethical manufacturing or something like that and plenty of info will come up.

Yes, I have a modern western lifestyle with all that it entails. I try very hard to buy ethically, though this isn't always possible. I would far rather have a fairly clear conscience, shop secondhand wherever possible and not fuel the manufacture of cheap, toxic shit that is currently poisoning most of China. The companies that make the products that I buy tend to have ethical policies that mean their work force is given a decent wage for reasonable hours. I would far rather give my money to a company that employs adults who can then look after their children and make sure they get an education. The arguement that at least the children are getting some money by working for Primark is naive to say the least.

No its not naive Callisto-its reality.

I ask again what do you thnk these kids would be doing if they werent working for Primark?

So these children should be happy they have a job, no matter how back-breaking it is?

Perhaps if the manufacturers of clothes paid a living wage in whichever country the clothes are made, the children would do things like go to school and play. Jesus Christ, is it so difficult a concept to understand that buying cheap shit perpertuates the manufacture of cheap shit? Can you really not see that continuing to shop in a place that has no ethical policies ensures that there will always be small children working 12 hour days for fuck all. Do you really think that that's ok? Do you really have absolutely no wish to change the lives of these people by the shopping choices that you make?

I followed an interesting thread on this a while back:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1007600-to-want-to-shout-at-Primark-shoppers

If you have got time/interest to look into it, there were all sorts of views on this thread. Particularly some good ones to help understand why Primark is so popular. And suggestions about what to do about it if you want to do something.

The main things I took from it is they're all at it to some extent from John Lewis to designer labels, not just the cheap as chips shops, and boycotting Primark won't make any difference.

Callisto

FFS seriously.

I buy clothes in Primark because its what i can afford,

do i want to change the lives of those people??
Honestly...they are not my priority.

I actually dont have a 'choice' in where i shop, i am limited by funds-'too poor to have principles' if you like.

I ask again though...what do you think they would be doing if they werent working for Primark?

I wonder what their families would think of all the people trying to ensure that their children had a 'better' [less money for food etc] life?

But its not just about money, its about conditions and hours too.

Too poor to have principles - so why not send your children out to earn a few pennies and help towards the family pot? Oh no, you wouldnt because then it actually affects your blinkered life.

ragged wrote
"However, by paying a bit more (and it only has to be a few $ per item more) you create less demand for the bottom price stuff. This is good, because it reduces the pressure to keep prices super low. Also, there's more scope (price flexibility and bigger margins) for the producers to end up earning more from the better quality and not so cheap end products"

Is this really true - I was under the impression that the more expensive clothes simply meant more profit for the company that was selling them. Conditions at the producing end were very similar whether it was Primark, Next or Prada

Yes Amberleaf

I go there because if I didn't we'd all look like ragamuffins...me especially! I come last in the queue of clothes in our family...apart from DH....and without Primark I would never get a new t shirt! I do shop 2nd hand sometimes but cannot cope with clothes that look...well, worn and so it's not often I get anything decent.

In Primark I buy basic things...a lot of black.

I answered your question Amber. Read my last post. It is a pretty straighforward viewpoint.

As for choice why can't you buy secondhand? What is wrong with Ebay or charity shops? I don't shop in Primark because it employs sweatshop labour, it is shit quality and the stench of cheap dye turns my stomach. I'd rather spend a few quid in a charity shop and save up for the things I can't afford. My priorities are probably the same as yours more or less. But I can't in good conscience dress my DD or myself in clothes produced by slave labour. I'd rather go without.

I think yabu to buy in primark. Most of our clothes, furniture etc is second hand and we often get compliments. We certainly do not look ad if we are in rags. We also try very hard to eat ethically, I acknowledge that is harder to do especially when you do not live surrounded by farmland .

I forgot to say, no one is BU to in shop in Primark.

YaddahYaddah I guess my point is that because those companies are making that much more profit they have have more room to pay the producers a bit better if the pressure is kept up to make them do so. Whereas Primark doesn't have that little bit to spare and still keep their market niche.

Hope that's not clear as muck!

Another side of this is quite grim to consider and perhaps confusing for the women and children working in those factories or growing the cotton, their living conditions are often much much better than their alternatives barefoot poor uncultured uneducated (and no opportunities for education) because they'd be working on the land or keeping fort in the slums with a reduced economy; ironically, even the children in the clothing factories tend to have better lives than their peers without clothing factory jobs. It's not a morally simple situation...

But by being willing to pay more and simultaneously pressuring for better conditions, we could improve things all around. And you don't have to pay a lot more -- the difference between us paying 3 or 5 quid for a pair of child's jeans could mean a lot to producers, ultimately.

That book I linked to earlier explains a lot about why we can't just demand that every adult in clothing production be paid a living wage adequate for their children go to school instead of working, too globalisation makes that impossible unless every single country signed up to it AND actually had the will to regulate their relevant industries quite closely Never gonna happen :( .

"Too poor to have principles - so why not send your children out to earn a few pennies and help towards the family pot? Oh no, you wouldnt because then it actually affects your blinkered life."

No you sanctimonious twonk, i wont send my children out to work because that is illegal in this country.

My children are are fed adequately and housed adequately.

maybe if i lived in India and it was a choice between my kids eating by going out to work or starving because they dont i know which i choose.

Callista

I am not sending my children out in shabby 2nd hand clothes, i dont care what you think about that, I live in the real world as do my children and they would be savaged if they went out dressed in charity shop attire.

Ragged is right. It's not so black and white. I think only fairtrade and buying beads from little collectives and micro financed units is the only guaranteed ethical way, and then there is still a risk due to local oversight issues.

However it is stupid and cruel to say you can't cure it all so you don't care and you're not even going to try. It's a noxious attitude, very much so.

YABVU imo.

There is so much truth in the saying 'the one thing I cannot afford is cheap clothes'.

Tee2072 hahahahahahahaha .

I would rather be sanctimonious than live with your NIMBY attitude.

We're all bu really, our lifestyle is built on exploiting other people and Primark is just another example of this. Even Dh ( won't recycle and cares not for the air miles travelled by strawberries) baulked at buying polo shirts from Asda for ds for school and insisted on fair trade from M&S.

I'm not sure what the answer is, although there's some good suggestions here, but prioritising giving our children a pile of nice clothes while so many across the world don't even live to 5 doesn't feel good- again no criticism, I love buying things for the dc. We inherit a lot, buy fewer clothes of better quality and thats as far as I go...so no saint, me.

I forgot, we've sponsored a child for years, but in the grand scheme of things it's not much.

Wow, I never thought this thread would have so many answers.

Thanks for pointing out the alternatives.

I will look out of that book then ragged.

I tend to shop once a year in M&S sale for the boys. For myself I go for A Wear (not sure if that's in the UK) and H&M sales which are priced slightly above Primark.

Can I take my halo out for a polish

I have bought in Primark (or Penneys as it's know here) and do wonder about the false economy of it, things might be cheap but the don't tend to last long (though some bits do) so have to be replaced sooner than if you bought a similar item in M&S for example.

"I am not sending my children out in shabby 2nd hand clothes, i dont care what you think about that, I live in the real world as do my children and they would be savaged if they went out dressed in charity shop attire."

The answer isn't to avoid charity shops then but to avoid shabby clothes! I live in the real world too, one where you CAN find a good charity shop even if you have to venture a few miles away (just buy more at once then and shop less). Some clothes may be shabby, some will be not just as new but actually new, it's not difficult to be a tiny bit picky and end up with lovely stuff. My dd never goes out looking shabby (unless she's made herself that way) and has never been 'savaged', quite the opposite. People regularly comment on how nicely dressed she is, have even passed a few things on after she's finished with them to people who could easily afford new but were disappointed they couldn't get the same thing for their dd.

Mind you, that sort of attitude about 2nd hand clothes is what keeps charity shops half empty and allows me to swipe all the bargains so should I really be arguing

Did I say something funny?

Just by living in the so called first world you are, by definition, exploiting the third world. Your computer, your clothes, your very way of life is only possible due to cheap labour in other countries.

It's not a matter of raising the price of jeans by £2. More like £5 or £10.

I, personally, am not willing to pay that price. I have first world privledge and I enjoy it.

At least I am honest about that.

I don't think people are unreasonable to shop in Primark if that's all they can afford, but I do think it's unreasonable to say charity shop clothes are shabby - are ebay clothes shabby then? The thing with second-hand clothes is that they've already been worn - but the same is true of your clothes after the first wear! Of course some will be well worn and perhaps obviously scruffy, but you just don't buy those ones. It's not hard.