music lesson fees

[MountOfVenus]

Son is at private school, was offered music lessons starting 2 years ago (September 2008). Didn't ask about costs - turned out to be £17 for half an hour lesson (the teacher comes in at 8am and takes students every half an hour for the whole day), which was more than I was expecting... We signed a contract with the teacher that didn't make any mention of fees or increasing them, only that there was a late payment charge if they weren't paid on time.

Last September the invoice was for £17.50/lesson. Was a bit aggrieved that the fees had been increased with no notification or discussion, didn't say anything to the teacher, as the increase itself wasn't outrageous. I did ask the school why the fees were so high, and they told us that they don't have any control over the fees and don't charge the teacher for use of the room.

This September we were sent an invoice for £18.50/lesson, an increase of double last year, and again no notification or discussion. I wasn't happy at paying 6% more at a time of wage freezes, and just called the teacher. Teacher said 'I charge more in other schools, fees are reasonable, the other instrument teachers charge a similar amount, and I can't make an exception for you, if you don't like it, you can go elsewhere.' [The issue here is that if you don't get lessons from him, my son would have no involvement with school concerts, etc.]

AIBU?

It does sound dear - I pay £12 for 30 mins piano for DS privately, and £180 per year for 30 x 30 mins clarinet lessons at (state) school, so £18.50 sounds really dear.

You're in an awkward position, though, because if your DS is musical and enjoys it, he'll be getting so much out of the orchestra/concerts etc.

I guess if everyone else is happy to pay that amount for a tutor, you're in a weak position.

Could you do alterative weeks with another pupil? Maybe selling the idea to the tutor as more time to practise... Or, if there are several pupils playing the same instrument, suggest a group lesson?

Might be worth checking with the school if your son would definitely be excluded from school musical events if he didn't have school instrument lessons. If not, you could go privately.

No - sounds like the music teacher is taking the pee a bit - but equally, you're being held to ransom... so you need to decide.

Can you ask your DS what he thinks - does he enjoy them, does he feel that he's making progress, etc. Maybe ask him all this without telling him reason why?

we pay 17.50; again no notices of fee increases

No I don't think you are being very unreasonable. Money is tight for lots of people at the moment.

I agree that the teacher, who may be self-employed, can charge what they like. People who aren't happy can choose not to pay.

I definitely do not agree that if you can't pay for the lessons your child is excluded from the concerts. That isn't very fair. The lessons are extra to the school curriculum and the school should not make them compulsory for people who want to participate in school concerts. Bit of a catch 22 though. If you don't have the lessons then you can't achieve the standard required for the concerts.

Not sure how much people pay in state schools for peripatetic music tuition. Nearly 20 quid sounds a lot for half an hour but not extortionately so. I have done some private tuition at 20 quid for 45 minutes (French, not music)

in a state school - £7 for 30 minutes

DD has piano lessons at her independent school. They are £14.50 for a half hour lesson.

Last year she had lessons privately outside of school. They were £12.50 for half an hour but are likely to have risen a little since the new term started.

Yeah, that is much more reasonable but I believe that the music tutors in state schools are employed by the local authority, rather than self employed, so in state schools these lessons are subsidised by taxpayers money (so they should be!) I think it is great for the children to be able to learn these instruments at school. As a teacher I love seeing the children performing and I think that even if they are no musical prodigy, it is a good skill and great for their confidence.

He/she is cutting off their nose to spite their face, no doubt lots of people have dropped lessons because of the recession so those that are left she/he has decided to charge more. Terrible business decision.
You realise everyone is going to pile in with you are at private school therefore you should be charged triple just because don't you

Wow. I pay £10 a half hour for instrument lessons at (state) school, and £13 per half hour for private piano lessons.

Sorry I hope it didn't seem like I was saying that you deserve it because you have chosen private school. That isn't what I meant. I was just saying that for those teachers it is a business whereas in a state school they have their wages paid.

Blimey, we pay £40/term for one half hour trumpet lesson a week (state school).
Thats ummm £2.50 a lesson I think....

The money isn't a problem to me, it's more a matter of principle that I'm not happy to pay more than is fair, and although I probably was already doing that, the increase is also I think untenable.

I told the teacher that I was happy to pay a fair rate for a job well done, but I didn't want to feel I was being taken advantage of.

He said nobody had ever complained. I can't say I'm surprised by that, you need to be (a) bothered and (b) up for the confrontation.

He would definitely be excluded from music events, but there haven't been many so far, thus far in two years he played a piece at a summer fete to no-one in particular, and also played a piece in one concert (children who weren't having separate lessons played the recorder). So it's been very peripheral, but apparently there might be more as he gets older/more experienced? But possibly just one end-of-year concert....

I'm Head of Performing Arts at my school, and we charge students £34 for 10x30 min lessons per term.

Yours does sound very expensive.

Sounds a bit rubbish. Schools are usually better at organising musical events. Where I work we often have children performing in assembly, even if it is just playing their flute while the others enter/leave the hall. Last year we had a "xxxxschool's got talent" show, there was also a Christmal carol event and a concert. And a musical xmas production for the younger ones. Some pupils performed their instruments at the end of year awards evening. And probably a few other things I have missed out. (state school, ages 9 -13)

It seems to be not unreasonable for private school music lessons (ours are £206 for 10 lessons - increases each year with school fees and by the same % I think). Generally private lessons outside school are usually less than this. Also, most music teachers seem to think that private pupils tend to do better than in-school ones. I think the reasons for this are as follows:

1. In school, pupils often forget to turn up or turn up late or forget their instrument &/or music. I think this is a big issue, especially for the more forgetful pupils. I don't think they always get their 30mins and what's left goes from expensive to extremely expensive.

2. Much less teacher - parent contact, so parental support is less focussed, or often just less.

3. less choice of teacher - you usually just get whoever the school employs, rather than choosing someone suited to your child.

So it might be worth your while looking elsewhere if you have an evening to spare to ferry your ds to/from lessons (because private lessons are undoubtedly less convenient to the parents). Also speak to the school about involvement in concerts - at our school children having external lessons are still involved if the school knows about them (though maybe in a less systematic way than those having school lessons).

The impression I get is that the local(Surrey) prep schools don't really care how much their music teachers charge. Which isn't great, but he seemed to think he was being entirely reasonable because (he says) they all charge similar amounts.

I pay £13.80 per half hour for DD's private piano lessons. It's agreed with all parents from the outset that fees go up 1 pence per minute every September, so a 30p increase each year.

I think a £1 per hour increase is a bit much, especially as they have no overheads other than their own tax/NI and transport to get there (but if they are there all day then it's not much when shared out between all the children).

Although, I've got no advice as to what you do about it if your DS would be disadvantaged if you pull him out.

Here are the results of a fee survey carried out by the Incorporated Society of Musicians

I charge £40 per hour btw but for that people probably also get more preparation than usual, plus a lot of theory marking and so on.

Write to the Head/Governors asking them to give notice of any likely fee increase each year so that you can (a) budget accordingly and (b) decide if the service provided on his/her school premises is worth it.

Ultimately, the Head has to know what is going on. The teacher MAY be self-employed but they are there for the school.

the other issue is that the school's music teacher, who was quite clear about her policy with regard to music lessons - it's in school or I'm not interested - is retiring at the end of the year. So that could change.

My son is quite lucky in one respect in that he have the 8am slot, which means he's not missing any lessons as later slots might be. Although on the other hand being the first slot, it's quite likely to start a little late, if he or the teacher are late/half-asleep.

I know that half-hour lessons are usual for his age (8), but it doesn't seem very long to me, with tuning/setting up, you might only get 20 minutes of playing. We could get hour-long private lessons for about the same price outside of school I think.

normally if you're self-employed you tell your clients that you are increasing your fees....

We pay £40 per hour (central London, in line with the survey in the linky). Even though I'm usually pretty sharp about high fees, I don't begrudge a penny of this, as the teacher is fab - not through the school, so it's payg, not buy a term block and risk missing some. DCs both doing very well, which helps with the feel good factor as well.

we pay £18.50/half hour at a private school, same fee for all the teachers, goes up by 50p per year - clearly written into the contract. yes it's probably more expensive than out of school tution but am so busy that is only reasonable option. teachers are fab, do keep in contact - written notes every lesson, emails/phones often, option to go in and watch a lesson every term (i can never take this up)
my other son is at a different school and the music lessons there are £25/half hour! - fortunately he no longer plays.

If there was a lot of music going on at the school then it would seem more worth it, but it doesn't sound as if there is much of a music department and what there is isn't very motivated.

I would be inclined to organise lessons privately, because that sounds a really odd set up.