To think if all your children have grown up and left you should give up your 5 bed council house?

[dilemma456]

The housing list are so long and especially for bigger properties.

I met someone who lives by herself in a 5 bed council house last night. Her children have all moved out. There are people who really need that house crammed into much smaller properties.

AIBU to think that if you're massively under occupying social housing you should be under an obligation to move out into something smaller and that the council should offer you support and encouragement to do so?

The reason the wait is 14 years is because Thatcher sold all the houses off and the cap on building new social housing ..not because of under occupancy ..but then I blame her for everything

Always the working poor and disadvantaged that have to suffer the fucking shit and shoulder the blame
and everyone falls for it ..

Definitely wine o clock

I love my council flat, but I've seen other people look horrified at the prospect of living there. Living here means that I'm stuck with crummy neighbours, a poor choice of schools, ancient kitchen units/wiring and hassle from the council regarding petty rules. I was allocated the flat because of some dire home circumstances and the truth is I probably was far needier than most people.

I have had sneers and judgy behaviour not just from parents but doctors and other professionals who have made assumptions about me purely based on where I live. The fact is that many of the people who would want me to downsize in the future wouldn't deign to set foot anywhere near my estate.

The only positive thing about my flat is that it has a reasonable rent (£360pcm for 2beds in London zone 1) and the security it offers - which of course is the only security I can offer my children because I'm not wealthy enough to build up an inheritence for them. I certainly plan to allow them to continue living here for as long as they wish and for them to succeed the tenancy when the time comes. Other parents pass on homes to their children to give them security in life - why shouldn't I be able to do the same just because I haven't had the same life opportunities as the owner-occupiers?

There will be changes for Housing Benefits for working age social housing tenants starting in 2013; not well publicized so few peple are aware.

From April 2013, housing entitlements for working age people in the social sector will reflect family size ie you will get HB based on need rather than size of accommodion.

Won't impact on those who are retired which is likely to be most of the under-occupiers.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/inquiries/impact-of-the-changes-to-housing-benefit-announced-in-the-june-2010-budget/

I do absolutely agree with it for under 65s thenceforth. And I write this as an HA tenant as well (there is no council here, it was all transferred to an HA).

I think that is only fair because private renters, are subject to the same goes.

erm Thatcher left in 1990 was it?...

why is there still a problem with housing???

Why is the cupboard totally bare after the boom years we have had in recent times....

The Labour Government fairly swiftly remove RTB for New tenants once they got into power in 1997. They also allowed local authorities to build again.

Maybe because 100% mortgages were 10 a penny? years ago ..maybe because house prices have risen to ridiculous rates and most peoples wages haven't risen at the same rate ...easy to blame the council tenants again

I blame the milk snatcher for much of the shit we're left with but that's where we are. How is a single person occupying in a 4 bedroom house when there are families in a one bedroom being a socialist again? Please run that one by me because I seem to have missed that chapter.

I can't believe that people honestly think that under occupancy in social housing is to blame for the housing crisis in this country ..How fucking naive is that

vhjiuytrdkiujyht

Sorry - that last bit wasn't aimed at you usualsuspect, it was meant for nikkershaw.

oh you could have said, i was referring to all of mn really not just this thread btw

Haven't read the whole thread, but just wanted to comment about the post which said tennancies are no longer passed onto children, if the parents die.

I have a 4 bed house which I moved in to with my 3 children and my xp. When he moved out, it took me about a year to get him to agree to sign the tennancy over to me.
My new agreement clearly states, that if any children named on the tennancy are over 18 at the time that I die, then they are entitled to take the tennancy over.

This was about 3yrs ago.

I was surprised that, this was the case and don't really agree with it.

Wrt to people giving up homes that are too big for them, then I do agree that where possible someone should downsize once all of their children have left home. However, I do not think that they should be forced to move to a different area and should be entitled to stay in the house until a suitable property in an area that they want comes up.

Right to buy was introduced by Thatcher, and didn't end in 1990 - my parents bought their council house in the late 90's...valued at 50,000, they were able to buy it for £28,000...you cannot underestimate how popular this scheme was, suddenly thousands of people were able to buy their home, people who would NEVER have been able to consider buying without this scheme and the discount (because you didn't just get the right to buy your home, you also got a large discount, which correlated to the amount of time you were a council tenant)

So all these houses were bought off (and were taken out of the pool of housing forever...don't forget you only had to keep the house you bought for three years before selling at a huge profit, or letting)
but thousands of new council houses were not built to replace them. Instead they decided to build thousands of very small one and two bedroom flats...bearing in mind two bedroom properties are the ones you wait the least amount of time for...and that they were not purchased in such huge number in the right to buy flurry.

nikkershaw - I think MN is pretty much on the fence politically. And I don't think there have been many people on this thread who are very right wing really so I'm not sure what that has to do with it.

I don't want to turf old people out. But in a housing crisis we cannot carry on with the current 'homes for life' policy or passing them on to the next generation. They are housing, not an inheritance.

I have no envy to speak of
I have fallen out with my father so many times over his refusal to sell up his big 4 bedroom house in a good school catchment area. His point is that he has scrimped and saved all is life to own his home and why should he leave it!
I keep trying to point out that the council will make him sell it soon enough when he needs care. Which isnt that far away. He refuses to even contemplate it. He is firmly of the generation that thinks I'm alright jack sod the rest of you!

My family are in 'social housing' at the moment. We rent a (very small) 3 bedroom terraced house from a HA, that the council doesn't actually class as a 3-bed, they class it as a 2 and a half bed house. We have been on the waiting list for a larger, full size 3-bed house for nearly 3 years. We cannot afford to private rent as rental prices for a 3-bed in my town are between £850-£1000pcm. We cannot afford to buy, as we cannot get together a deposit as DP earns only £16,000 before tax. AND YET.... I totally agree with us being made to downsize once our dc have left home, in order for our house to be used for someone in greater need. Although we will probably never be able to downsize to below a 2-bed, as 2 of our 3 dc have SN, and one of them will probably never live independantly. Should we be kicked out when the youngest hits 18yo, even if they cannot afford to rent for themselves? Does that mean that not only is an 18yo on the streets, but also a couple who no longer qualify for their old house, with no new house to move to, plus an SN adult (who when youngest is 18yo, would be 23yo) who would in no way be able to afford even a bedsit? It's difficult, where do you draw the line on what is acceptable?

If all the dc have left home, we would gladly downsize. However, if we were forced to do so when we still had 'adult' dc at home, where would they live? If there isn't the housing for them, where will they go?

When your children have left loudlass. No one is sayiing your disabled children should be out on the streets. But it is about occupancy. Every person here who has argued that the older members of their families should keep their home (quite rightly) has been alone or with no children for many many years.

It's not very complicated.

FTR, my 1st reply about forcing them to rent out spare rooms, was more tongue in cheek than heart felt, but I do agree that in a housing crisis, downsizing when the bigger property is no longer needed, should be the norm its just plain common sense........its really not fair otherwise......

Many moons ago I lived on a small council estate, & yes thanks to Thatchers policies....& working my bollocks off I was lucky enough to get out of my tiny council studio & on the property ladder, but that was by buying a property they couldn't rent out because it was so run down

My next door neighbour at the time, was in her late 70s, & rattled around on her own in a large 3 bed flat.....whilst underneath me...in the same tiny studio I had previously lived in, lived a couple & twin babies......those kids were at least 3 before they were finally re housed........& there were several other similar families & single older residents on that estate

yes I can see that some elderly people might want to stay rattling around in their 3 bed Council/HA property out of sentimental reasons, but that doesn't make it fair, when others are not given the chance of a more suitable affordable home, because they are still hogging something they no longer need.....its meant to be SOCIAL housing

My parents have always owned property.....they down sized & it didn't kill them.......& DHs Mum was in Council housing & did the same

I'm curious though, all the talk of Thatcher selling off housing stock & that been the cause of the problem ( & yes I'm guilty, I bought into that).........we have a scheme around here, all private new builds, most luxury apartment blocks, have to hand over a % of the flats to HA/Council, its quite a high %...20% I think...... I thought was now Country wide???

Well. I think that if people want to have children then they should be able to support them and I have no sympathy for people with large families who are living in cramped accommodation. They made their own beds so to speak...
Obviously there are exceptions, but in the main if you have inadequate housing and choose to have more children then whose fault is it except your own?

readywellies, I think that is a very sweeping statement & depends very much on where you live........for the most part I would agree, I DID do that myself......but property prices in a lot of places, here included..... are just way outside the average wage earners reach..........so effectively, if your rules apply...only the Rich could breed......& just imagine what that would do to the economy

So, ready, if you're a private renter, a working poor who'd hithertofore been working your little cotton socks off. And you got made redundant, then you should just go to fuck? Is that it?

WTF is the point of my bringing up children to live here when they become adults, really?

Ridiculous home prices, no jobs, shit jobs, tons of debt, and then every fucker telling you it's all your fault so fuck you?

I felt guilty telling them, 'This here's a Paton place you're best out of it.'

But now I see, get out before you have to support the likes of ready and her attitude.

Readywellies - so only the rich should have children? Let's ditch CB/tax credits/ WTC etc shall we? Because without those lots and lots of us wouldn't be able to afford our kids.

Maybe we should just go the whole hog and implement a one child policy

expatinscotland - do your children have dual nationality ?
It's the only thing keeping me going sometimes, the knowledge that mine do not have to stay here as adults.

The RTB has not been removed, even for new tenants. You have to have been a social tenant for at least five years and there are more rules about paying back a discount if you sell within five years. The discount here in London is capped at £16k which is much lower than the 70& it used to be, but it's a worthwhile saving. Not for me though - I'm unlikely to be able to save for a deposit. But I hope one day my DC will be able to, it would be their best chance of buying a flat here.