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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To have had enough of the Pope and his lackeys now?

92 replies

FellatioNelson · 16/09/2010 10:27

In the news this morning: The Pope's adie will no longer be coming with him to the UK after making an unfortunate comment that:

On arriving at Heathrow it's like being in a third world country'

and:

Britain is in the grip of an agressive new atheism'.

Well the last comment is obviously a pathetic attempt to try and justify the anger directed at the Vatican over the disgraceful handling and cover-up of rife paedophilia and other forms of child abuse in the RC church. Clutching at straws methinks. As thought he only reason we would oppose to any of that is because we don't beleive in God.

But on earth are we to make of the first comment?

OP posts:

Animation · 16/09/2010 11:18

ronshar.

I can relate to your post - I too dispise the way my mum was treated by aggressive Catholic nuns, and also the over-use of shame and guilt that got passed down from generation to generation. The church got a lot wrong and it's time they faced up to themselves. I also don't like organised religion - but I'm still a believer.

GetOrfMoiLand · 16/09/2010 11:19

Totally agree novicemama.

Original poster

FellatioNelson · 16/09/2010 11:19

I'd love to see Benny's face if he was left with the just the suitcase handle, like the Rhod Gilbert sketch we've all been laughing at yesterday.

OP posts:

AbsofCroissant · 16/09/2010 11:20

I can see your complaint against the money being spent on the pope's visit (in fact, I also signed the petition against it - check me).

BUT - it's the aggression on ALL religious threads that gets to me. What particularly riles is the attitude (trotted out in almost every thread) that if you're not an atheist, you're some kind of idiot - that you aren't acting rationally, etc. etc. which is hugely insulting.

I speak five languages, have two degrees, have studied philosophical and religious texts extensively - and apparently I'm ignorant. And apparently so is my Christian Nuclear Physicist best friend. That's what really riles me. It's so disrespectful.

Original poster

FellatioNelson · 16/09/2010 11:22

Hear Hear novicemama.

(My new best friend Gertof and I are agreeing on everyhting these days - apart from Al Murray!)

OP posts:

Heracles · 16/09/2010 11:25

Until atheists insist on you coming for meetings on said atheism in a big building at least once a week then kindly shut the fuck up about it's "aggressiveness", eh...?

GetOrfMoiLand · 16/09/2010 11:26

Lol Fellatio, I am the new LeQueen. You will have to change your name to IagreewithGetOrf

I have no issue with peole being religious, and I certainly do not think people who who are religious are stupid at all. The only thing I object to is the obligatory christianity in some areas of life in the UK which should remain completely secular.

Heracles · 16/09/2010 11:26

"its" not "it's".

Gah! I blame god.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 16/09/2010 11:26

absofcroissant - I think you have correctly touched on the issue of 'respect'.

There is a growing tendency to reject the previous 'if that's what you believe, then I respect that' philosophy. Which is of course upsetting to the religious.

I respect your right to believe whatever you want, but I refuse to respect the belief itself. If someone believes that gays are evil/women need to be stoned for adultery/whatever, on no better grounds than that's what their holy book tells them, then I reserve the right to question that belief.

Traditionally, someone defending a religious viewpoint, no matter how bizarre, is treated more gently then someone defending an equally sincerely held - but non-religious - belief (see the 9/11 thread for example!) But I think that is decreasing. And I actually think that's a good thing.

PaulineCampbellJones · 16/09/2010 11:27

I don't agree with the state funding the visit. I also think it's exceptionally coincidental that the Queen will be making a state visit to Ireland in the near future (I know plenty who will be protesting at that)

ronshar · 16/09/2010 11:28

Animation. How can you reconcile the two?
I genuinely am interested in how you can believe after experiences like those our mums went through. All with the consent of the church and the Vatican?

It has caused me trouble all of my adult life. I am so spilt I think I want to believe but cant forgive.

AbsofCroissant · 16/09/2010 11:29

"The only thing I object to is the obligatory christianity in some areas of life in the UK which should remain completely secular." I agree. I too don't want Christian things forced on me, as I'm Jewish - it totally goes against what I believe in.

ronshar · 16/09/2010 11:30

Also I think you have all forgotten that it was Gordon Brown who asked the pope to visit. The pope had refused several time before. Even TB tried to get him here!

Kaloki · 16/09/2010 11:31

He's not even in London yet and I'm already sick of it. To me it just seems to show a fucked up way of doing things.

This country is cutting back on care for some of the most vulnerable members of society but we are paying for some bloke with (in a lot of cases) idiotic views, who has no relevance to the lives of most Britons! And are shutting down huge areas because of him and disrupting the lives of people who do not benefit in any way from him being here.

And then on top of that we've got his idiot aide making snide comments about there being different cultures in England like it's a bad thing. Sod them.

DandyDan · 16/09/2010 11:31

Yes, AbsofCroissant, exactly.
I have nothing against non-theists being cross or angry about elements of religious belief and how it might impact on society and their lives - these things are fair debate.

But anger is not the same as aggression, and that is what is evident on these thread: rudeness and arrogance and unpleasantness. For theists to be repeatedly and rudely dismissed as self-deluding dimwits is insulting.

Not all Catholics and not all Christians are happy at the amount of money being spent either, or some of the policies on gays and women, contraception.

elportodelgato · 16/09/2010 11:33

TheHeathen, you have put it better than I could have done. Traditionally we treat those with religious beliefs with more respect and gentleness than we do people who njust believe in things for this own sake. This is now on the wane and long may it continue.

Your religious beliefs are not more valid than my humanist beliefs simply because you have a big book and a man in a dress who tells you what your beliefs are.

Animation · 16/09/2010 11:54

runshar.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a believer of Catholicism, or organised religion particularly, though would probably could class myself as CofE still. Mainly I believe in my own personal God - a God who is not pleased Himself with how the Catholic Church have conducted themselves over the years.

I think we can channel that anger (about what happened to our mothers) into making sure the buck stops with us, and that we don't get taken along with hypocritcal doctrine anymore, and that we learn to challenge it and not pass it on to our kids.

Tippychoocks · 16/09/2010 12:14

He was met by Prince Phillip at the airport. So he may have had a little help in thinking of offensive comments no?

Heracles · 16/09/2010 12:17

Bloody Greek baggage handlers.........

barrygarlow · 16/09/2010 12:18

ronshar

Tony Blair did invite the Pope to visit and Gordon Brown extended the invitation once he became P M

ronshar · 16/09/2010 12:52

Animation. Thats pretty much the same as me.

I was under the impression the pope had turned down TB and that when GB re issued the invite last year the pope only said yes when the Queen issued a formal invite.
Oh well he is here now!

Emo76 · 16/09/2010 15:33

Seems to be utterly acceptable in our society for people to make abusive comments about atheists but not about any other beliefs. Imagine if he'd commented on muslim/jews/hindus/CoE etc in that way. There would be an uproar. But no, atheists seem to be fair game. I find his views grossly offensive.

GrimmaTheNome · 16/09/2010 15:55

I'm always a bit mystified about references to 'aggressive atheists' or 'militant atheists'... when did you last actually see a mob of humanists on the street issuing a fatwa, or threatening to burn books, or proclaiming that people of other beliefs were going to hell, or pestering people on their own doorsteps.

About all they've ever done is put an incredibly mild poster on some buses. (The suggestion to arrest the Pope was it seems largely mischeivous to stir debate)

tokyonambu · 16/09/2010 16:10

"However, we should respect the office of the Pope "

Why?

Original poster

FellatioNelson · 16/09/2010 17:12

Grimma Agree actually, that's a very good point. What people of faith fail to see is that atheists/secularists will only display what may be interpreted as an aggressive anti-religious stance (publicly) all the while they are obliged to accept that it the Church and state are intertwined.

As this country is home to people of many faiths and (mostly) none, then it is irrelevant, outdated and in some cases offensive.

Given a truly secular state, most atheists I'm sure would be far less strident in their views. They don't hate religious people, they just object to someone else's religion setting the agenda for their lives, and the society they live in, and over-riding their own beliefs.

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