to expect my dh to do more around the house?

[ovumahead]

OK, so my husband is by no means lazy. Not at all. He works 5 days a week running his own business. I officially work 4 days a week, but usually it's also 5. However, I do the majority of the housework - e.g. 90% of the shopping, all of the laundry, all of the cleaning and tidying (although we've now just got a cleaner for 2 hours a week which has taken a huge burden from me), and all the little things that he 'doesn't see' (I believe him!). I also sort out all the bills, maintenance of the flat, car, childcare arrangements/payments, make all the decisions for our son, sort out holidays, parties, birthday presents and cards for everyone etc etc.

However, I'm in the final year of my doctorate, I've got mountains of work to do. I'm starting to feel a bit annoyed about how much I feel I'm doing in comparison to him. It feels petty to compare what we do, and normally I wouldn't - if I've been working less, then I do more around the house simply because I can. I do try to be fair about it all, but I'm just noticing some resentment building up in me and I just don't know what to do about it.

So far, I've tried talking to him, we've had a couple of arguments about it, but nothing ever really changes. He seems to need concrete instructions about what to do and when, otherwise he just doesn't notice or think about these things. I know that might sound patronising, but that's how he explained it to me! So, with that in mind, I suggested he do the shopping on line once every two weeks. This has never happened.

When we've generally bickered/discussed/argued about all this stuff (which I HATE doing), all he ever says is that he's just too busy and he just doesn't have the time. But we're BOTH bloody busy, it just feels like there's no flexibility with him, and that it's always me doing the bending, flexing and thinking about all these things.

I've also tried just not doing anything for a whole week, but then the house was festering (we have a toddler), and there was a laundry mountain that took a good few days to clear.

I do admit that having a tidy-ish house is important to me, it's by no means immaculate or a show home, but it's a small flat, there are three of us in it, so it kind of has to be tidy-ish otherwise we're tripping over things.

The one and only thing he will reliably do is take the rubbish out.

I'm just not sure what to do now. If I leave things, they will simply not get done (and I honestly have given this a good go, e.g. this week I wondered if he'd notice he needed to do an online shop because there was no food in the house - no bread, milk, nothing to make our son's lunches or dinners with etc... but no - it just didn't register! So I had to ask him to do the shopping, had to write a list for him, and he still complained about doing it because it took an hour...)

Any suggestions? Advice? AIBU to expect him to do a bit more?

Also - might I point out that dh refuses to learn to drive (he's in his 30s) because he doesn't need to? This means whenever we go anywhere, I drive. Starting to wonder if I've become his servant now, especially after reading the cognitive dissonance thread...

And another thing. He hung out some towels that I'd put in the washing machine the other night. I thanked him. WTF?!

OP you sound like me five years ago. And you know what happened? I just gave up fighting it. Like you, I work 4 days a week to his 5, I even earn more than him, but I do sodding everything. I go away for work a few times a year, so admittedly, he steps up to the mark with childcare (and so he bloody should), but when I get home I have to cope with two or three days' backlog of washing, clearing up, shopping etc etc. All he's managed to do is look after the kids.

My only defence is that I think he is totally and utterly conditioned to not notice what needs to be done, because this is how it was in his house when he grew up (Dad worked, Mum was SAHM). How can you battle against the power of the formative years, when traditional gender roles were part of his blueprint?

I know we COULD change them if we devoted our lives to it, but to my mind, it seems like more effort (and marital strive) to confront it than it takes to just shoulder the burden of what needs to be done.

He's good at DIY, fixing cars, mowing lawn, so whilst these skills are not brought to the fore in day to day life, at least it's something...

good luck - I admire your spirit and share your frustration

What? He can't drive? Tell him to grow a pair and get some lessons.

MisterW he's been saying for years he can't afford lessons, or doesn't want to afford them because right now, he doesn't need to drive. I got tired of asking, had the occasional row about it (especially when I'm driving him to and from places where he has a few drinks and doesn't seem to acknowledge what a pain that might be for me). Then he went out an spent around £2000 on a new road bike and accessories - his new hobby, which means he's out of the house a lot at weekends going on mammoth bike rides. He doesn't see this as a problem, because - you guessed it! - he doesn't need to drive. Never mind the fact I forked out to pay for our holiday, wedding, and new bed on my credit cards because he said he couldn't afford it on his...

Nanga I don't want to give up fighting it. It's awful! I hate being put in a position where I feel like I'm demanding something unreasonable when in fact all I'm asking for is that the basics get done, that the place is hygienic for raising a toddler in, but according to him, that's unreasonable. Bah!

Ovumahead - I so hear you - and it is definitely reasonable to expect your DH to do more.

It sounds from your DH's response to the meal plan that he would benefit from some direction in what needs to be done, but at the same time it sounds like he resents being given direction - which sounds exactly like my DH. What I did was the following:

• Told him I wanted to set aside a "meeting time" to talk about this as it was bothering me and asked him when would suit him. This meant he didn't feel sprung upon and had a chance to think about how he felt about the situation as well, and meant that when we had the discussion, we both had time for it, were prepared and it was actually productive.

• At the "meeting" I told him how I was upset that the responsibility of the house and children seemed to fall to me and when I entered into the marriage I thought it was supposed to be a partnership. I didn't want to be asking him "to do things for me" because that's not a partnership - it needed to be a joint venture where he "took ownership" (hate that phrase but you know what I mean) and together we both identified what we thought needed to be done, agreed a list of the tasks/ responsibilites to be shared and then agreed how to divy them up.

• I also needed to be prepared to hear a few home truths about bossiness/ nagging/ and overly picky standards, and agree that as part of the new "system" we came up with I would also be prepared to change my ways (as long as he was prepared to accept joint responsibilites).

• We then brainstormed all the tasks/ responsiblities that were involved in running the house/ looking after the child. This was the bit that I think was really key to changing my DH's behaviour. He was genuinely amazed by how much there was to be done, and also the fact that he had identified the tasks sort of gave him some "ownership" of them if you see what I mean. I tried to hold back as much as possible and let him come up with as much as he could before I chipped in.

• We then jointly agreed what was my responsibility and what was his, by working our way through the list and each having a go at picking what we would like to do and when we would do it. (So for example, we had agreed there were 5 washes to be put on a week, and he chose to put on 2 of them on a Friday, one before work and one afterwards - he then put it in his blackberry with reminder (which he didn't need after 2 weeks). That way he created and "took ownership of" his own to do list (and recognised that if he didn't do it, that someone else (i.e. me) would have to do it and that was mean and disrespectful).

The general approach was that I tried to treat the whole managing of the household a bit like a project management exercise, as I knew that would appeal to his way of doing things, and helped me distance myself from the emotions his not doing his share stirred up in me.

He's not exactly a changed man, but it did help enormously (- until I had DD2 and went on maternity leave again when we fell back into the old pattern a bit again but I was okay with that as I was around the house a bit more. Am back at work 4 weeks now though and I think we may be having another "chat" again soon - just have to pick my timing as there's a lot of extra stress in his life at the moment so I'm trying to keep my cool for now).

Don't know if any of that is useful, but it really did work for me (after many years of simple nagging).

Damson thank you. I think your approach sounds excellent. I'll give it a go. Is Friday night a bad time?

hi, thought I would add the perspective of the 'messy one'. I don't notice mess nearly as much and wouldn't tidy or clean nearly as much as dh..... This as you can imagine has caused much strife (he was always saying he was sick of doing the clenaing/tidying). However things are now a lot better- basicaly becasue dh lost the plot and talked to me about how it made him feel about our relationship. He felt disrespected and like I didn't care about him or his needs. I might not care about the mess, but he does and I live with him so it really is very crappy of me to think it's ok to ignore that. Now I have to remind myself to be tidier and clean up after myself a bit (I really really don't notice- so i almost have to set a reminder on my my phone ).Maybe that's what he needs to hear you?

So you do all the housework, arrange everything to do with you DC, make sure all the bills are paid, sort out any household maintenance, drive him everywhere and pay for everything? What does he think he contributes?

Well he contributes a lot - he earns 3/4 of our income at the moment. I guess in his mind this means I should be doing more around the house?

He is also usually out 2 or 3 nights a week, he's set up a club for people in a similar line of business to him, he's decided to write a book too, he seems to have work to do in the evenings too. But (of course) whatever he does is more important than what I do.

I understand the financial pressure with being freelance, he has to work hard and it is exhausting sometimes, but so is my job and so is being in charge of everything else, including pairing his fucking socks.

YOUR DH is being unreasonable. Iwork shift work about 25 to 30 hours a week, Ig I have a day of during the week then I'll do the housework and all that goes with it on that day, DH does it if I'm not in adn sometimes when I am in. I do all the food shoppinng and sorting out housekeeping money but he sorts out the other finnces. He also does all the Gardening

Ovumahead - we seem to be married to a very similar type of man. DH also runs his own business, writes and ends up doing plenty of extra stuff as well.

FWIW I gave up on the socks - I just leave them unpaired. He never pairs them and just wears odd socks - I reckon if it doesn't bother him, why should it bother me :-)

If he earns most of the household income why are you paying for everything? He may have lots on but so do you. You're trying to finish your PhD. Tbh I don't think it would matter if you earnt more than him, he would still make his excuses because these aren't things he wants to do and he knows you'll just get on with it.

happy I know. I don't get it. I think I'm just starting to realise a few not so nice things about him.

Damson I did actually give up on the socks. Today I did the laundry but took his stuff out. It felt petty but I want to see if it changes anything. Will he notice?

And btw the way he does have time. He finds time to go on bike rides when he's not working so maybe he could eat into some of that time.

He'll notice when he's got nothing to wear!

I never actually tried leaving his stuff out of the laundry (although I definitely considered it and he definitely deserved it).

I know someone else that did and after about 3 weeks he noticed he had no clean clothes and got the point (although from what she said, this may involve him wearing underwear for more than one day - maybe that's why I didn't go down that route in the end! ;-)