to be rude and curt - I came across as up myself.

[JaneS]

I'm a postgrad student and live a long way away from my university - this makes good sense as I live very near to the material I need to use to study. However, I've don't know the other students as well as I would if I lived nearby.

I didn't realize, but apparently at this university/department, it is normal for people to boast on facebook and in person about every latest achievement/problem. They seem hugely supportive of each other so I think this is great. Naturally though, I don't do this, so some of the other students have been assuming that, since I didn't let them know I'd done x,y and z of my degree, I was very thick and struggling.

I am actually doing fine. I've had a lot of barbed comments but didn't realize why, until recently. Someone got in touch to tell me that I shouldn't worry about being behind schedule because she was, and I shouldn't worry about academic conferences because she's never attended one.

I was really annoyed and since then, whenever someone asks, I say I am doing fine and glad I'm not so behind as to have never attended a proper conference. I've said it about four times and I feel petty now, but a bit satisfied.

AIBU? It is very bitchy but I'm amazed at adults being so rude and childish in the first place, but may be overreacting.

If there is something coming up that you've done for your degree that you might fb about? Even if it is just going to a talk or conference or something that would count as a bit different and that you wouldn't mind being broadcast to everybody on your fb account?

If so, all you need to do is do one post saying 'I know I'm breaking the habit of a lifetime here by posting something about my degree but I'm really excited about going to the xyz talk in my city (or whatever it is you are going to do)'

I'm sure you'll be able to word it better but basically by doing just one post you'll be able to (in a nice way) show that you don't do degree updates on your fb page.

Alternatively, if you want to start trying to get involved in this, could you set up a list within fb or a different profile for yourself that is purely for your degree stuff so that only people that are relevant can see it? That way you get to practise a bit at the social networking aspect without everybody else you are linked to seeing it.

And think of a different line to say that will still give you satisfaction if anybody asks you but that doesn't alienate the one person that said something nice to you rather than the barbed comments. Maybe something along the lines of how you like talking about how things are going with people rather than boasting broadcasting sending out trivial updates to all and sundry on facebook. That way you turn it round onto their behaviour on facebook as being different from yours...

LRD, I've just had another thought - do you live in the place where you got married? (sorry, REALLY not intending to be too stalkery! I just remember because I live there too) - and do you work in an arts field? (I'm guessing yes by your ref to the IMC...)
If so, then can you join in the (very lively) postgrad seminar culture in your home town, where you might get the kind of stimulus you want (and will benefit from) without, perhaps, the pushiness? And if not, perhaps there's something local to you anyway that you can join in with - most arts seminars would welcome interested attendees, whether or not they are affiliated to the host institution.

When I was a history postgrad I was a regular at seminars in a number of different places (esp IHR, own university) and it's a nice way to build up a network of friends/support - and meet a range of people at lots of different levels. One reason that you don't find academics competitive might be that there's no reason for them to be that way towards you. (Another of course is that plenty of them simply aren't like that! I just think that those who are sometimes - sometimes - get ahead more quickly.)

Hi aqua. It's ok, you can be as stalkery as you like, it doesn't bother me (although if you or anyone else is my supervisor, please note I am working very hard! ).

I am thoroughly involved in postgrad life in my home city (yes, it's where I got married), and I did accept the PhD place elsewhere on the understanding that I'd be allowed to continue living in my home city and being involved there. In fact, I don't think half the faculty has realized I've left (my college didn't realize until March!). It's just a bit sad and depressing that there's such a nasty culture at the other place, and I wondered how typical it was.

Btw, zip, I took your advice! Good and bad results - a couple of nice people got in touch to say I made them feel bad and that they don't like the culture of boasting either - so we all agreed it was a bit daft as we're all in the same boat. But I also got a nasty little pointed message from someone else, so - not out of the primary school playground yet!

Ah well ... I just want to be idealistic and hope it's not, or doesn't have to be, all about oneupmanship.

Btw aqua - part of the reason I need to be more involved up in my university town is that I have to obtain so many credits for 'networking' type stuff. If I lived there, I'd get credit for traveling away from my home on research trips, but of course, as I live right by my manuscripts, I don't get credit. So I'd like to bump up my credit by going to seminars there and organizing stuff with the other PhDs - it's not just about me wanting supportive friends.

Sorry - I have no idea if that made sense - the credit system is bizarre complicated.

Ah, I'm sorry that you're disappointed in the new place, but it's good to hear that you're not alone in how you feel about it. And really good that you're involved with seminars etc elsewhere.

Thinking more about it, although academia IS competitive, what you've described doesn't sound that typical tbh...though I'd reiterate that it is worth steeling yourself for the fact that good self-promoters do stand out for grant and job applications. (And perhaps therefore thinking about how best to promote yourself, in due course.)

I expect you hear this all too often but try to enjoy the years of pure research - they will get rarer!

Just read what you replied to me last night and honestly, you misunderstood me. All I was suggesting is that these other postgrads seem socially a bit inept, and that you should stay away from them on FB.

Besides, unis are beginning to get involved and to issue policies on this sort of thing. If I were to take a swipe at anyone in my department anywhere online, my supervisor would be immediately informed, and I would be seriously bollocked...

just read your other post - can you get credits for attending seminars in other institutions? worth asking your supervisor.

Thanks breastmilk - I was asking for clarification because I wasn't sure. I do know I shouldn't let it bother me. It's just the drip, drip effect that gets you down after a while. It's almost always done as if it's just supportive criticism, but it is annoying. I re-read this thread, and realize I didn't explain. The girl who 'reassured' me she hadn't been to any non-grad conferences wasn't being supportive. She was telling me I shouldn't go to one because she hadn't.

Meh. Sorry, I am really grateful to everyone for replying, I think I just needed to grumble a bit and be reassured it's not all like this.

aqua - yes, I get credits for the seminars. Just not the research trips.

Would I be very cheeky to ask a question? Something I would love to ask the older students about, but don't seem to be getting anywhere with, is: how does one get funding to organize a conference? I've looked on the AHRC website and I can only find funding opportunities for very long projects. Any ideas?

(Long shot, sorry. But I reckon since MN is so wonderful ... )

Well, I hate to say it but a lot of the academics I know are quite bitchy and competitive and that's just the men! They are also strongly opinionated which is why they are telling you what to do, even though you are doing just fine. On the other hand, I don't really understand the problem. If you don't have to socialise with them, and you don't need them as they don't work in your area, you don't need to be around them at all. I can't really think they are so motivated to boast they will be seeking you out and if you are not on Facebook, you won't know about it.

Sometimes, being a slighly more mature student, or married, or having children, or living away, or whatever, does mean you are not part of a clique. I've had that, but as I didn't want, or need, to be in the clique it was no big deal. Minimise the time you spend with them, maximise the time spent attending those conference, or indeed running them (I know nothing about your area, so not best person to ask).

But, if you imagine all the senior academics to be co-operative, get on well, not to boast, and to be team-players, you may have picked the wrong career, even though there are some lovely individuals in the mix.

Hmmm. I've only ever had funding from my faculty for seminars and conferences, so I guess your own institution is a good place to start. Once you've got a host institution, you can also get sponsorship and help from other interested institutions/research centres - think about who would be particularly interested in the area/outcome. Your supervisor should be able to help in much more specific terms than I can, since I'm not certain about your field. But a good general tip would be to make sure you have a clear purpose for the conference and a reasonably precise specification for the call for papers/invitations to speak - and write up a good explanation of why it will make a contribution to the field, BEFORE you start approaching people for support/money. If you want to put together a conference volume, make sure that it will MAKE SENSE and HANG TOGETHER (people are getting very sick of conference products that are just a series of essays rehashing what contributors have said elsewhere, not revised for publication, and which bear little relation to each other or to the aims of the editor/s ... there was a rash of them in my field because of the RAE in 2007). Remember you don't have to get publications out of it to make a conference worth-while, but some sponsors will want to know what the conference will 'produce'. (One other possibility is that you could look at publishing an account of the conference - perhaps in a conventional journal; perhaps in a less traditional medium e.g. online publication.)

One other thought - one-day events are MUCH easier to organise than bigger affairs, and it is MUCH easier to do it if there's more than one of you!

Sorry this is a bit vague - CAT me if you think I could offer more specific help.

Thanks cornettos. Forewarned is forearmed, I guess!

I don't think all senior academics are lovely - I've actually had a bad argument with one who wasn't (a bloke who told me I was wrong about everything, watched me hold back tears and sneered that I was too emotional to cope with criticism. Oddly, I've had far harsher criticism from other people that just sounded helpful and honest).

I really appreciate your advice, I'll take it on board.

Aqua, it's not vague, it was very helpful, thanks. I'm afraid I've not used CAT, though.

What you say reassures me - there is a pot of faculty funding that I might get (can't apply yet as they want you to apply not more than 6 months before the event). I just assumed there would be loads of funding opportunities, so you'd need to apply for 20 or 30 before you expected to get one.

I will try to write a strong proposal now. Just one question - do I approach keynote speakers now (pre-funding), or do I use them to boost my funding app? I've done a bit of both, and have a couple of keynote speakers, but I am nervous to ask someone else as there isn't funding yet.

Little Red Dragon

I was accused of being "Up myself" once.

Surely for most of us it is a physical imposibility. cheers.

How bizarre. I'm writing up my PhD and have only ever used FB to moan about the university forgetting to pay my stipend. I did post about going to conferences but in terms of the place not the academic work that went with it. Mind you this is why I will never do well in academia maybe.

None of my students friends post about chapters written etc either.

Sounds very odd. I'd steer well clear.

Thanks MrsTurnip! I am coming to the conclusion they are odd.

I think that if you've already got a couple of speakers then you don't need to approach any more to make a strong application - although you could include suggestions of who you will approach (and why) in the proposal. And no harm in approaching people informally - they'll understand, though if they are busy they may not want to be pestered until you've got something concrete.

Depending on the institution, they may also want to know that you will offer a platform to early career/postgrad speakers as well as big names! Perhaps worth writing up your criteria for accepting/declining offers of papers?

The thing with conferences, as with conference volumes, is that they do need to seem to make sense as opposed to being set up for the sake of CV/research assessment points. I think that's more important than having lots of speakers already lined up (although again, your supervisor is the better person to advise on this).

Good luck, doing conferences is hard work but can be fun!

Thanks aqua. The conference itself isn't purely for my CV - I work on a slightly odd area between subjects, and talking to others in both fields, it's clear there would be a lot of interest in a conference. Where I struggle is that I hate organizing things and have to push myself to do it - but that is good for my CV (and for me)!

Thanks so much for the advice, it's great. It really helps, because you see my main supervisor (who was keen on this conference) has now gone elsewhere, and my secondary supervisor (you have two where I am, as it's interdisciplinary) is on sabbatical, and busy.

no problem! I had interdisciplinary issues when I was a postgrad, too. Seminars and conferences are good ways of getting people from different faculties to talk to each other, though there is often still quite a divide (after all, you'll almost certainly teach in one field, so people do end up with a clear affiliation). I ran a seminar series to fill the gap - found a couple of other people who also fell between two stools worked on interdisciplinary things and we shared the work - would recommend that!

yanbu. in any way!

but if this was me i'd have to subvert this and use fb to poke fun at the other students....stuff along the lines of

xxxx has stayed up ALL night reading 500 different journal papers, god it was AMAZING!

xxxx thinks anyone who hands in papers with reference lists of less than 100 items is a total loser!

thats the best i can do but you get what i mean

i couldnt help myself id HAVE to try and make them think they wren't working hard enough!

No worries, Little Red Dragon, I think academia is a great career for women (with/without) children in some ways as I've found it flexible in terms of working hours (long but you can choose your own more), and taking time off for the school play is usually fine, for both men and women where I work. However, the inner politics is the downside really! But that may be true of many careers.

LRD, I worked in res funding after academia - contact your university's res funding office. The BA do conf funding, though I don't know if you can apply as a student - look here. Also try the RHS.

Oops, I lost track of this thread. Thanks so much for the replies cornettos and habbibu! I'll get right onto it with the funding office (didn't even occur to me there would be such a thing ... duh).

Thanks so much.