to be outraged that RE is a compulsory subject at GCSE level and History or a language aren't?

[seeker]

Well am I? I thought it was just my dd's very old fashioned school that insisted they study RE even if they aren't doing the exam, but I find out that it's a statutory requirement. So they can drop Modern Languages, History, Citizenship......but they have to do RE. And religious people say that thier faith doesn't impose on my life at all.

ANd I undersstand that it consits of reallly intersting discussion about issues of the day, and is really all about morality and philosophy and is mportant stuff, but why call it RE?

Appreciate that it depends on the board Scaryteacher. It was soft when I was at school- dusts off cobwebs- which is why I wanted to do it . Wasn't allowed though.

Fuck me ragged, religion has more relevance than science, maths, physics and Shakespeare??????

I'm off to read my bible and give the magical pixies that make my light box work a rest.

Everything can be related to religion in some way. Some mathematical concepts developed as part of people's religious beliefs.

But of course RE isn't more important than Science. The ability to carry out basic subsistence activities are a consequence of understanding a range of scientific concepts, and humans couldn't survive without that knowledge. But humans mediate their relationship to reality through social constructs, including religion. So both culture and material reality are important to learn about.

I didn't say it had more relevance than those subjects. I said it was as important as those and should be included in the statutory subjects.

I was not being entirely serious mentioning the Shakespeare etc, but practically it is more relevant to understand what faiths are about and the ethics that surround some religious issues that impact on the world we live in, than to know how to calculate x=[-b+/-√(b²-4ac)]/2a. I studied Shakespeare for my degree and beyond so he's important too. But so is RE!

Just to repeat - RE is not more important than x,y,z but it is as important as x,y,z and deserves its place on the statutory list.

As important a History? Or a MFL?

But CurryFreak, you don't need Welsh for certain jobs because some guideline says so, you need it because you genuinely need it! There are still many many people in Wales for whom Welsh is their first language, and they have the right to deal with the government in their own country in their own language.

I've met plenty of people my own age (20s) who struggle with English, because they've never needed it - they speak Welsh at home, school and work, and they have the right to do so because they are Welsh and in Wales. As I said, I did a temp job at the Council once (I would never have got the permanent position because I don't speak Welsh fluently). I often struggled because people would phone and start chattering away in Welsh, and I would have to interrupt them, explain in my very poor Welsh that I didn't speak it, and find someone for them to speak to who was bilingual. It was a job requirement, and a school requirement, because it is genuinely required!

If I had a big Boss of Education hat on, I would say as important as history and a MFL. I wouldn't give very much leeway in choice of subjects at GCSE level. Maybe another three free options on top of the ones mentioned - Eng, maths, sci, RE, MFL, history, ICT

DD, I am concerned by your argument about Maths calculations.

Say for example, your RE class did a study on Catholics in Rwanda, and they were so moved by the issues that they decided they must act. So they collect aid and want to send it there.

Except they can't. Because somebody has decided that mathematical calculations are not really very important. As a consequence, nobody knows how to build a school that won't collapse, or work out basic statistics on inequality so that your class can learn about the existence of widespread poverty, or build a plane to get the aid there, or extract the fuel for the plane, or research and create the medicine that the Rwandans need.

Rhian, I agree with you. Learning Welsh is vital because of people who speak it as a first language, its contribution to Welsh culture, and as a wonderful contribution to the wider European community for whom Welsh represents a link to earlier European languages and our shared heritage.

It's a minority language, even in Wales. There are millions spent on it for the benefit of a tiny percentage. I saw this for myself when we went to visit over the summer holidays.
Bilingual language signs, bank machines asking you if you wanted your information in english or welsh.FFs,- a massive waste of resourses. Another disgrace, is the S4c welsh language, propped up by central government (yea that's government in (ENGLAND)to the tune of millions. Horibbly parocrial and out of touch.
By all means learn welsh if you live in wales,- however most welsh peop,- certainly not any i've met..
My friend's dh is welsh, and has told us many times that the welsh language militants are an embarresment and backward looking movement.

I meant to say most welsh people dont give a stuff about the welsh language.

If you want to understand Shakespeare the english teacher should give context. The same goes for history teachers. The idea that RS gcse gives context for the the origins of WW2 in the Far East is ludicrous. I'll admit that studying theology at a higher level might help but not RS gcse. Gcse is too low a level of study to get to the true meat of the subject.

Studying science as at least two separate gcses worth should be compulsory. A modern language should be compulsory. History or geography should be compulsory as should english literature.

News in a moral context I'd be doing in Citizenship, and maybe for non GCSE RE, but then I've never had to teach KS4 non GCSE. I've always gone for jobs where GCSE and AS/A2 are taught.

'I do know what RE is - as I have said becore, I'm not actually stupid!' You seem to have your own take on what RE is as far as I can see, and you don't seem willing to take on board what I have told you about what I teach. RE varies between LEAs as at KS3 the syllabus is set by the local SACRE (Standing Advisory Committee for RE) and will be different as each SACRE will reflect the local religious make up. In Cornwall for instance, as it not ethnically or religiously diverse, we do everything but Sikhism at KS3. In other parts of the country, you will find perhaps more on the Eastern religions on the syllabus than you will elsewhere.

'Religious Education. As if it is only in the context of religion that morality and ethics can be considered. Surely you must see this is wrong?' Seeker, look at the title - we educate about the different religions, it is very descriptive and accurate. It is NOT religious instruction which would be preaching, not teaching. It is called Religious Studies in some schools, as one studied the religions. Morality and ethics are tackled, but you can't teach those from a purely religious standpoint, as most students are secular so it doesn't work.

The whole point of an education is to turn out a well rounded individual. I sat through 5 years of science because the powers that be thought it necessary. I can't say that I actually learnt anything apart from the menstrual cycle, sex and why I got spots, that has had any practical application, but it was considered necessary for me to have knowledge of it. I think that it is crucial to teach religions because it is so important to have religious literacy if you come from anon religious background; or if you are a fundamentalist whatever, to have an appreciation that there are people out there who do think differently to you.

We are never going to agree on this, so suggest we call a truce.

Repeat, repeat: I didn't say maths calculations weren't important. I didn't say - don't study maths. I said RE was as important as maths.

:) Don't be disturbed. I enjoyed maths GCSE very much too!

What scaryteacher said.

'Studying science as at least two separate gcses worth should be compulsory.' I did that at O level, Biology and Chemistry. Ungraded in both O levels, and also O level Maths. Thank God for CSE, where I got a 2 in Chemistry and Maths, and eventually a CEE at 18 in Maths which was an O level equivalent, which meant when I was much older I could teach.

I have never used trig or geometry knowingly since I left sixth form college - I can do the everyday things, and can work out percentages off in the sales really fast, but algebra and logarithms have only crossed my path is ds's homework, and log tables were used to level off exam desks when I invigilated last summer.

Actually geography and history should be compulsory.

It's important to remember that a child hitting Year 10 in a State school would have already had 10 academic years worth of compulsory RE. I would have thought that the concept of comparative religion would not come as a surprise after all that!

Scaryteacher, it is hard to call a truce when your post includes such controversial statements. By your own admission you haven't really understood the basics of school Science, and yet you are the person the Government has seen fit to teach children about the ethics of a variety of topics that are Scientific in nature - cloning, environmental issues and so on. How can you teach these things adequately if you don't have basic Scientific literacy?

I would not dare do the opposite in a Science lecture.

SOrry but I really can't see how this subject, even if taught as described by Scaryteacher - which does sound good and usefull BTW - is more important than history, geography or languages. It does come across as yet more pandering to the superstitious.

I am sure there will soon be a new free school run by religous fruitloops teaching creationism and intelligent design as part of the curriculum

Exactly, SGB. I don't mind at all my dds knowing about religions. I know loads, far too much, about religion (it's why I'm a raving atheist ) and will happily argue the hind leg off any religious donkey.

But it shouldn't be prioritised over the other subjects which encourage critical thinking, understanding of other cultures and times and ways of thinking, considering a range of ways of living.