Work woes

[NewbeeMummy]

Half a rant, half AIBU, half looking for advice

Since returning to work from Maternity leave, I have been treated like I'm a second class citizen. I work in a technical field and I'm the only woman in our team, but I am just as capable and qualified as the guys in our team.

here is a list of things that have really pissed me off...

1. I'm constantly given crappy admin tasks (being told they're exciting challenges - I mean fFS I'm not 5), while the guys go out and earn commission
2. I am paid a fraction for what the guys earn
3. as I'm not able to go out and earn commission money is starting to become really tight, and when I asked for justification as to the salary differences I was told if I didn't like it I could just fuck off.
4. I've recently discovered that when the guys are given the same crappy admin jobs that I often get roped in to help them out with, they are allowed to claim commission on it, where as I get told in no uncertain terms that I cannot.

I'm prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable, I have a stinking cold and feel like death warmed up, so I may be over reacting.

no you are not being unreasonable.

You should be treated and paid exactly the same as the men doing the same job. Anything else is illegal.

Have you asked your employer for an explanation of why you are treated differently? If so what reason do they give?

Hopefully Ribena or Flowerybeanbag will be along shortly with some legal advice on what you can do about this.

I tried speaking to the HR department and they went straight to my manager who gave me the accept it or fuck off line, which was nice.

I do know he said the same thing to a male colleague who was pushing for a greater % increase than they had offered, but he already earns twice what I do, and he is the next lowest paid person in the team.

You definitely need to seek legal advice on this one. Were you always treated this way, or has becoming being a mum made it worse?

YANBatallU.

Are you ready for a fight? The more people that do, the more companies will learn this is not acceptable.

Good luck! x

You are being discriminated against and this is tantamount to constructive dismissal.

Your boss has said what he thinks about this twice (once in response to you and once in response to HR) so you know where you stand.

Speaking to HR again (in confidence and remind them of their role and the fact that they become party to any unreasonable behaviour towards you if they do not comply) and ask for their opinion. They should not allow this man to treat you this way.

Failng a reasonable way forward, take it to tribunal. It's not on at all.

Before I went off on Maternity leave there was still the pay issue, but my then manager had promised he would resolve it as soon as I returned (kind of a return to work bonus)

Unfortunately while I was off, all 3 levels of management I used to work for have left (pushed out due to a company buy out)

I will book another meeting with HR and see if I can make any headway

I really don't want to have to take this to a tribunal as I'm the breadwinner in our house and cannot afford to lose my job without another one to go to (DP is a sahd as he did not earn enough to pay for childcare). We have a modest savings account, but we're already dipping into it each month to buy groceries etc

Feeling quiet demoralised by all of this

oh and thank you very much for your responses

Join a union - quickly. There will be probably be certain period before they will help you though. Good luck.

hot foot it down to 'citizens advice' too. jeez their treatment of you is appalling

good luck x

I second CAB. That is awful.

Um, threaten legal action

Post in legal and whatever other topics seem relevant - we have some great brains who do this for a living!

It's illegal
It's shit
It needs fixing

Don't settle for it because you are the main breadwinner and are too worried to challenge them.

Thanks everyone, I have a chat with HR this morning, so will see how that goes.

It's really good to know that it isn't right, I was begining to think IO was maybe expecting too much.

Just bumping this for you in the hope that Flowery or Ribena will see.

You could also try posting in the Going back to work or Employment sections since the employment lawyers tend to hang out there!

Thanks Minipie, have just had my chat with HR, even though it was booked for 9am... sigh...

Outcome of my chat with them is that they "don't view me as being at the same level as the guys"

Which seriously pisses me off, due to the massive staff turn over we've had recently the team really would be stuck without my knowledge of all the previous customers we have worked for.

When asked why, she could not give me any specific reasons

Her only suggestion was to speak to my manager (although she did offer to have a discreet chat with him for me - erm no thanks, you announced my pregnancy to anyone who would listen even when I asked you not to and stirred up a massive shit storm when I asked about paying back my Mat leave if I left early - which resulted in having some training I was promised pulled)

Although I at no point mentioned that I feel there is sexism taking place, I deliberately made sure I said "unconscious favoritism", as he (the new manager) and a lot of the new team all used to work at the same company She was very sure to point out that she felt that there was indeed no case of sexism, and that my manager was too nice a person to do that sort of thing.

Feeling hacked off, know I should speak to my manager now, but right now can't as I'm seriously sleep deprived and may go all girlie and emotional which will achieve nothing

Have you written everything down in detail before you forget exactly what was said?

Bloody pissed off on your behalf... that's wrong on so many levels.

I hope someone comes along who can really help you!

Have you posted in Employment and Legal??

"don't view me as being at the same level as the guys" but no reasons to support it?

That's really shocking.

Can you think of any reasons they might be able to give - do you have less experience? do they achieve better results in any concrete way? Doesn't sound like it from your OP.

Also, even if they were able to demonstrate that you were in some way less good at the job, that still wouldn't explain why they pay the guys commission on the same work that you don't get to earn commission on.

I did post this in employment a while ago, just after the meeting with my manager, the main suggestion was to speak to CAB, I have contacted them, but it seems to be like pulling teeth/herding cats and I've not had much help from them, other than you need to speak to your employer.

Unfortunately CAB are pretty swamped.

You could try the ACAS helpline?

so your boss is too nice a person to act like that - er but he told you to 'fuck off'

i am so sorry but this is appalling! can you afford legal advice? if so then go for it as i feel that HR are being equally crap

Thanks minipie, I'll give them a try

@Summerbird I guess we could probably scrape it just, but it would blow all our savings, which would mean were I to be dismissed we'd have nothing to live on or pay the rent.

This is sex discrimination so you'll need the Equalities & Human Rights Commission not ACAS. However they will only send you a massive sex discrimination questionnaire to send to your employer.

What do you want to achieve? Is it an increase in your basis salary? The same commission opportunities? Stay with the company or leave?

Fwiw I think you could get your salary matched to a male colleague and stay in your job... whilst waking them up to the fact their behaviour is illegal. And HR will never admit to you that you've experienced discrimination because they hand over all the power to you. Shitty but the reality in the most part I'm afraid.

To get your salary matched and stay you must do "the same job" as male colleague and be paid less. You would need to raise a grievance to your line manager citing the Equal Pay Act and naming the male individual (which can be a political minefield as to how you know they're paid more but you don't have to divulge, they have the burden of proof) But you must be doing the same job, so your job title, qualifications and length of time with the company (including your maternity leave) must be very similar.

If they find in your favour at the grievance hearing they have to match your salary from that date. There is no obligation to backdate. If they reject it you can appeal internally and then instigate tribunal proceedings all whilst in your job.

The nct have a free legal advice line which you can call. It's option 5 on their enquiries number. I suggest you give then a ring.

Join a union. Do it straight away. Ensure it is known you have joined a union. The union may well help you right away if you pay a year's dues up in front. Start noting down what everyone says, get these decisions in writing if you can. I speak as a union rep.

Sorry basic salary (not basis) and YADNBU

Thanks Marchpane, all I want is to be treated fairly, the commission thing would be less of an issue if I was paid the same basic as the guys, but fundementally, I don't see why they should get commission for jobs when I am explicitly told I cannot.

I have the exact salary of two of my male colleagues, and within 5K estimates of a further 3. HR have called the two colleagues (who I did not mention by name of course) liars.

Our job titles are exactly the same, one has 4 years more service, but in a different department, and I have more qualifications than him, the other only has 1 months more service. I took 6 months maternity leave, is that likely to affect this?

Your maternity leave cannot affect your length of service. That's sex discrimination because a man would never be penalised in such a way.

But if you're paid the same as your other male colleagues you may struggle to get anything under the equal pay act.

I would give hr a call back and ask how you go about raising an "informal grievance" because you feel you are being treated unfairly since returning from maternity leave. I think you've tried to sort this out amicably and you need to show you're not a push over and won't stand for it. You should also start taking notes of conversations with dates and times.

In fact, I'd send the hr woman an email to confirm your conversation detailing what she said to you today along the lines of "I just wanted to confirm our earlier conversation where I asked you x and you told me y and I asked for examples but you were unable to provide them etc etc". And then depending what she comes back with request the grievance procedure to show you mean business.

Do call the NCT helpline. It's manned by a reputable national firm of solicitors.