to think the goalposts have moved and want to opt out?

[massivenamechange]

It's father's day in the southern hemisphere.

All my childhood I would be scorned by my parents for taking part in a capitalist load of rubbish if I made them mother's day or father's day cards. I learnt to chuck out the card made at school on the way home, since my parents didn't like it.

After living away for 5 years post university, I suddenly found myself being criticised for being a shit child because i didn't do things for mother's or father's day, during the speeches at my sister's wedding.

After living away for 5 more years I am now being openly criticised by email by my sister, my sister's husband, and my parents, for not taking part in what is now a multiple meals out, family picnic, big-present-giving affair. Quite apart from not particularly feeling like joining in, I don't have the money to be buying large expensive presents for people.

Is this really awful of me or does it seem faintly reasonable to just opt out?

I did say happy father's day to my father by email.

oh and I live 20000km away from them so obviously can't really take part in any of it.

I would be tempted to ask them when and why they had the change of heart.

My parents have never taken notice of fathers/mothers day or anniversaries. Since we were all teenagers they stopped birthdays as well. I dont think they would know what to do or say if I presented them with a card or even an aknowledgement of the day. Thing is my DH's family is the exact opposite, we get lists of acceptable things to buy them for occasions and are expected to make part of the day free for them. I hate it.

I dont think it is awful to do what you have been accustomed to doing for a long time. If your father is happy then I would just carry on as normal. Not everyone wants a big fuss made.

Any people who think that a wedding is a good time to have a go at the bride's sister for anything at all are peculiar people and not ones I'd want a lot to do with tbh.

Annie- i agree but am trying to make things work better.

Butterfly - you're right about editing history. I probably do it too, though I try to remain objective about the fact I wasn't a very likeable child, and my parents aren't very sociable at all and don't really know how to behave. I don't think they're being malicious here (or in all the other areas I moan about). i'm not entirely sure what you mean by kicking them in the f*njo.... is it a metaphorical kick to not acknowledge mother's day or something ?

Am trying to make things work. But feeling utterly ground down by it all. My immediate family aren't very likeable, and don't seem to like me much, but they do have this thing of all having expensive love-ins (like the celebrations today) and then censoriously judging anyone who doesn't join in.

YANBU, When I lived in South America, my stepmonster took great delight in telling my dad that obviously I didn't care about him, cos I hadn't sent a card.....

She hid the card sent by my sister to prove her point, (though my dad didn't know this) He rang and asked her to send another card...

Tell them you don't subscribe to it, as you never did when a child.

Littlemiss - that sounds awful.

I'd like to officially opt out of it all - but the editing of history is actually a problem here.

I want to opt out because they all do all this really over-the-top stuff for each other now, and get pissed off with me if I don't send them all lots of presents - and yet my parents have forgotten my birthday 3 times in the last 10 years, my sister about 8 times, it is always me who phones them - my sister has literally never phoned me, my parents have done it about 4 times at Christmas.

And from childhood i just remmeber stress and misery and fighting at birthdays and christmases, my sister always counting the presents to make sure she had the most, my parents redistributing presents when she kicked off if she didn't have the most, etc. Yuck.

But what my sister remembers is happy birthdays and christmases with loads of pressies and nice food - and she wants to recreate that. and she seems to have convinced everyone else that that is how it was and how it should be.

So actually maybe it's me being the unreasonable miseryguts here...

I wouldn't remain objective about your supposed unlikeableness as a child. You would have to be a pretty mean parent to chastise and belittle a child for making a mothers/fathers day card for them. I doubt very much that it was you who was unlikeable here, and if you were unlikeable then the cause is pretty obvious. You don't need to blame yourself.

I don't see the need to pussyfoot around. Your sister feels she can be open so why can't you be - email everyone to say that your parents taught you that they did not want you to participate in those events and that they despised them. You have learned your lesson and respect the choices they made, and now they and she have to live with it. And it is none of her frigging business from now on.

And you might want to remind your sister that she is no longer 6, and that your parents are not able to redistribute presents because she feels she is not getting enough. If she wants presents and a big fuss made of her then she might want to give being a nice person a try for a while, as that is generally a better method than extorting gifts from people who you constantly criticise and undermine.

My parents told us father's day was a pile of commercial crap - they like it a lot more now. Turns out mum didn't fancy making three cack-handed cards and dad didn't really want to receive them, but now we've all left home they feel a bit lonely and the hype on the day reminds them they want contact. It's not logical or consistent, but it is understandable I guess.

Still, your parents are going way OTT with this, as is your sister.

i think a big problem with all of it is lack of insight. They don't understand that they're being unreasonable, or that editing history would even be a concept.

and I suspect it would be unreasonable of me to say "right folks, listen up, you're all too thick and stupid and self-absorbed to work this out for yourselves, so I'm going to have to tell you that the rest of the world just doesn't like you much, they find you egotistical and boring and childish and they don't rate the quality of your too-frequently-voiced political analyses or moral commentaries either. Yes, that's why your work colleagues have melted away since you've retired/ gone on maternity leave, and why the bastards were always having social events that you didnt' get invited to. Now before you kick off LET ME OUT OF HERE"

(sorry -that sounds callous. I am just at screaming point with these emails. Just had one from my mum as well, saying it was a pity I didn't feel compelled to join in family events. Feel like writing back WHAT FAMILY)

Massive, I learned to think that I was unlikeable as a child. It was only very, very recently that I suddenlt thought, ffs, a child! I was a little girl! What's not to like about that! And I spent some time revisiting me, watching myself as a child in my head, looking at me playing and reading and being with my family (who are okay, btw, but made the odd mistake, who doesn't?) and you know what? I liked the child I was. I was okay.

Our memories are completely and totally subjective. I had a happy childhood and always felt bad that it was the bad things that stuck out in my memorty, until I learned that many of us are wired to do that so that we don't repeat the same mistakes later. But even the way I remember things is flawed. So as I know what happened in teh past is just a story that I tell myself, I know that I have the power to change it, if I want to.

It definitely sounds like the goalposts have moved, but thsi isn't your problem, it's theirs. This can only upset you if you let it. You have the choice of not letting it bother you if you want to. You have very good reasons for doing thinsg the way you do and if you are happy with that then what other people think doesn't really matter.

Massive, if they are unreasonable that is their problem. If they are unpopular that is their problem, too.

What is your problem is your reaction to how they behave. Why do you care so much?

Spiritmum - thanks for the kind words - i was recently involved in a disucssion somewhere on here about children who were hard work. I think I would've been harder work than most of the ones on there, and it would have been a negative feedback loop.

The positive story I keep telling myself is that my parents kept on trying with me and all the other difficult stuff in life. We are still in contact, and they're getting cross with me today because they want more contact. So while unhappy, it is a good thing.

The difficulty here i think is that we have spun off in different directions. My family has got more extremely like themselves. I have repeatedly crashed and burned in work and life because of very poor social skills and spent about 10 years trying to turn things around... and eventually succeeded - though only in spheres utterly unrelated to my family!

Oh Massive, that all sounds very sad. It is not easy to join in when you live so far away for a start. It is not even easy to remember it is father's day when it is on a different day to where you are.

My parents now live in Australia, and I DID ring my father today )only because my mother sent me a vaguely threatening e-mail that i had better remember). then on the phone all is get is 'we feel so isolated from you, we are missing out on everything'. Well, I cannot help where they chose to live, and nor am I going to uproot my family to go join them. But, the guilt tripping is a little hard to take.

Your family sounds a little toxic. I would only suggest that you make a good, loving life away from them, and leave them to their negativity.

Spiritmum - you're right. Just getting on with my life would be a better idea... I don't enjoy all this angst, it seems to come from feelings of guilt about abandoning people [who probably would wish I'd leave them alone anyway]... I mostly save the ranting for on here though, so most people would think I do just get on with things.

i think I need more coffee...

Perhaps you should wrte an email explaining that as you had to throw away cards made for them in school as they hated the idea of these days - you are now at a lose to actually pay money to then send a card you fear will be placed int he garbage rather than displayed.

But if they would liek a picture to keep for each father and mothers day to come you will buy them thishere

Just want to say well done for coming this far.

If you can I'd try not to let them get to you...take deep breaths.... count to 10 whatever and also if it were me I wouldn't rely to childish emails. Tell them to bloody ring you!! It's not expensive nowadays and they can get a deal with their phone provider if they're that bothered? Do they have web cams? What effort are they really making?

I wasn't an easy child but was brought up with an aggresive father and meek mother. Older siblings had left by the time I was 5 so I was virtually an only child. I was a bully and bullied but am now a rounded popular adult who looks back and feels sorry for the child that was me.

Hope it all works out for you petal.

Masssive, being 'hard work' as a child is still just a subjective judgement. If you look back at how you were as a child you can find other, positive ways of describing what you were told made you 'hard work'. You were a child who knew no better. You are an adult now and can see that things were very different and you were not 'difficult'.

And you know what? I see your family as innocent children now. They remind me of toddlers, all clamouring for attention. 'Me, me, me!' They obviously know no otehr way to be.

But like most attention-seeking toddlers, they are best ignored until they know how to behave.

What did your sister do for father and mothers' day ? And why ?

I felt that too as a child, and my parents also don't see it that way, although they're very supportive of me in their own ways. They have their own dynamic going (nothing horrible, just very established) and I learned to be pretty independent apart from it.

To me it definitely sounds like the posts have moved too, and that you haven't actually been given the chance to explain why you haven't joined in much before (especially if the first you heard of it was in a speech in public! No chance of discussion then) anyway. And it REALLY sounds like you and your sister experienced Christmases etc completely differently, and that definitely doesn't make you unreasonable.

I think if it was me, I'd be very much thinking of opting out too! It sounds like 'competitive familying' and you could definitely do without it being used to criticise you, even if they're not being intentionally nasty.

Maybe a bit too final though. They might not stop being upset right away, but I reckon it is worth explaining the part about how you thought presents, cards etc had never been such a big occurence, but you would be happy to take part. In a letter maybe. I reckon you should decide on limits for how far you'll get into it though, for yourself and also to slow them that you're not going to get dragged into anything too overdone! Might be worth saying that while you can't attend everything and money is a bit tight, but you'd certainly like to send things for birthdays etc and to show you care.

I guess you'd have to put up (to a point) with their dynamic but you'd be at a certain distance, and could see how things went - give it a year perhaps, and see if it works for you. Do you think they might settle down once they realise you're responding to what they've said, but sticking up for yourself that way?

I don't think you can change their minds for them anyway, if they want to be like this you're better off deciding what you think is reasonable for you and then not reacting to any more 'why aren't you joining in?' emails - hopefully, they'll accept that you're not going to stick to your guns on it and calm down a bit. If not, it's time to ignore it more perhaps, it sounds like you've done a lot anyway and there's nothing wrong in the least with not wanting to join in with something you aren't comfortable with. x

Sorry missed loads of posts there by writing all that!

heh. yup, can i send them to their rooms and shut the doors til they stop throwing tantrums?

They are very innocent. What strikes me about all of them, when i go home, is how uninhibited and ingenuous (? ingénue) they are. I spend my life mixing with Humphrey Appleby types.... no wonder I find my family a bit like running head first into a brick wall. There's none of that nice cushioning effect of adult conversation.....