to think that expecting people to repay £1500 tax on average because of a computer tax blunder is unfair and ridiculous?

[arses]

I work in the NHS. I have worked in the same department since 2002. However, due to a crazy payroll system, I get three separate paychecks for the work that I do.

If a tax bill lands on my door on Tuesday for 'underpaying' tax - when, as far as I know, I have diligently paid my dues since beginning work, should I really be expected to repay the government when if I had made the mistake, I would also be expected to repay?

On maternity leave, I asked HR to find out what my salary would be in the event of a reduction of hours due to flexible working. They told me that with my separate contracts, it was 'too difficult a calculation' and they wouldn't be able to tell me my salary. But I should have known that I was being overpaid or was being underpaid?

And it won't even have a silver cloud like repaying the deficit, will it? Because if I am an underpayer in this equation, it will go into an overpayer's pocket?

You might be one of the 4.5 million who get a tax refund due to overpaid tax. Those refunds are due to come out whether or not the under-payers cough up or not. Will you be complaining then?

Getting a refund of money you are owed is not something to be grateful for.

It's not a 'computer blunder' though, is it ? Not really.

According to reports (and admittedly, I am not an accountant or money bod) but the new 2009 HMRC computer system is not the cause of the problem but has merely identified problems in the current PAYE system which has been in place for 70 years and is not able to keep pace with modern standards.

I know what you mean re the strain people are already under and the fact that, if like you they have already made every effort to understand their contributions and salaries, makes it even more frustrating, but if the money is owed, it is owed. It is owed to 4.3 million people, the missing cash can't be pulled out of the back of the Treasury sofa...

The country has a HUGE deficit which we have to address so we have to recoup that somehow and repay those owed. The only question is whether or not the administration/operational costs of recouping and redistributing the under/over payments is going to far outweigh the actual figures lost in taxation.

AFAIK the difference between what is owed to and by HRMC is £200m. If the administration costs exceed this figure (unlikely?) then they would have been better off sweeping this one under the carpet.

Can you imagine if they did and the furore if it got out?!

I'm sure they have swept far bigger things under the carpet

[fingers in eyes ears]

lalalalalalalalala

I'm sure you're right, though, as shite as it is

I suspect no.10 has some very lumpy carpets....

I think it is likely that the cost will be huge. The cost of administration per overpayed individual would have to be less than £143. Now, even if only 10% challenged their increased bill, the hours of investigation that would be needed would be substantial, wouldn't they?

Arf. The boardroom at HRMC must be about 4ft high from carpet to ceiling

Good point, Lougle.

Oh I am soooooo waiting for this to come as anyone who works for the public sector, nhs/mod etc now how they can't even pay you right half the time as it is, so I wouldn't be suprised if people like that get hit with a payback demand.

I am quite surprised it is getting this much publicity to be honest. PAYE is an estimate. Whenever you get your coding notice, you should check to see if it is right. At the end of the year you should calculate whether you have paid the right amount of tax. (The end of year calculation is much easier than the coding notice). If you have overpaid, you should claim it back. If you have underpaid, you should tell the Revenue why this is, and they will adjust for next year.

I know it is a ridiculous system, but it is the one we have always had. If you pay tax, you know that it is a significant amount of your wages - just because you never 'see' it doesn't mean you shouldn't check it - just like checking credit cards, change received in a shop etc etc.

People will be able to pay any underpayments through their tax codes for the next tax year, so will not have to pay it back in one sum.

I had no idea PAYE was an estimate! Really, genuinely: I assumed it was pretty tightly calculated.

My full-time job is .44 at one salary, .16 at another salary and .4 at another. The monthly gross and net seem to vary all the time and I phone payroll periodically for an explanation, which they can never give me.

To be honest, even if I wanted to be scrupulous in checking it, I would find it difficult without professional help. I had to have special help with maths at school.

Will I complain if I am one of those getting a rebate? No. Probably won't complain if I have to repay. But I won't think it's fair or right.

Repaying with a change in tax code next year is well and good but I am shifting from a full time job to .5 of my previous job (still made up of different contracts) so it might sting badly still.

I take it if you had overpaid by the same amount then you wouldn't expect that back either?

I'd rather not know either way!

Based on one's earnings, one has to pay a certain amount of tax. Sadly an error was made (it happens) and some people will not have paid as much as they should have, and over the coming tax year, will have to make this amount up.

It's a pain in the arse yes, but what's not fair or right about that?

Why should others have to cover this deficit for those who haven't paid enough, some of whom will have already paid the correct amount

TBH and I expect it will be the same here, as what they are guessing 4 years for cheques to all be paid?

WHENEVER the public sector screw your pay up, you have to fight and fight, sometimes for a year or so, even more at times, to get what you are owed, although as soon as you know you have been overpaid, wham it's gone the next month. I am sure this will be the same.

Who knows who has been affected yet, £1500 over a year is all well and good there may be some who can't afford over £100 extra a month over the coming year, with mortgage rises, etc.

I'd be a bit more sympathetic to the f*up if I knew people who were overpaid would also get their rebate in a timely manner, which won't happen.

is there anywhere that tells you what the error is???

Emmy, apparently those who have overpaid will get a cheque before Christmas, so hmrc will be giving back money to those who have overpaid before it gets what it is due.

deakall, what's not right about it is precisely what emmyloulou has outlined. Public sector pay is, in general, a nightmare and in situations like mine where one substantive post is fragmented into different portions with minor differences in pay for each, quite difficult to track. The bottom line is that a LOT of workers are going to absolutely dread getting a letter. If I am one of those who are due a rebate, my primary feeling will be relief that I am not one of those who believed they were doing as they should to be faced with a bill that is going to make their lives difficult.

To be honest, I don't want any sodding money I am due if I have overpaid knowing it's going to potentially seriously impact on others in my situation. It's done. I'd rather the money spent in administrating the fall-out from this error was ploughed into something else e.g. repaying the deficit or protecting services due to be cut.

So no, won't be rejoicing if I get a rebate and thinking 'two fingers to the rest of you suckers, you should have checked your tax'. I believe a lot of people, like me, don't check tax because they don't understand it and being asked to repay a large sum of money because of a computer generated error is going to feel pretty unfair.

I read today people overpaid will be getting letters and notifications before Christmas but could wait upto 4 years for the rebate cheque.

I'll believe it when I see it with a govt PAYE dept owing money..........

I don't think it is an error, as such (could be wrong though).

You pay tax on your salary, plus benefits, plus other things like interest, dividends, rent etc.

If you don't fill in a tax return, all the tax gets collected through PAYE (ie comes off your salary) even if part of the tax relates to dividends, interest etc.

But the information flow to the Revenue isn't 'real time'. They have to estimate all your non-salary taxable items based on previous years, which of course might be quite different. In due course, they do get the correct numbers (via bank certificates, P11D forms etc).

Apparently, they haven't been double checking their info too strictly, but now they can with a new computer system.

Your coding notices tell you what the Revenue thinks it knows about your circumstances. YOU SHOULD CHECK THESE VERY CAREFULLY. If you dont understand them - log in under a namechange on here and get someone to help.

cleanandclothed, that sounds right.

If it is complicated, might be an idea to file a tax return every year. HMRC will then issue a tax code off the back of that return. Hopefully that cleans the slate every year, as it were, and errors don't build up.