to sublet our rented flat?

[curableromantic]

We moved into our flat 3 months ago, DP, me and DS (nearly one). We really messed the landlord around, pulling out twice and before eventually taking it. He is away for 12 months in Australia with his family, there's no possibility of a longer or shorter let.

Soon after we moved in we realised it was too small for us - DS was to have his cot in the little attic room with DP's massive desk and papers (works and studies from home) but this room was too hot in summer for DS to sleep and I'm worried it'll be too cold in winter (dormer windows).

We were even a nightmare when we moved in, because I was not sufficiently clear about what furnishing could be left behind and when we moved in it was fully furnished, full of all his furniture, even all the kitchen stuff. It was literally like he hadn't moved out. He was really nice about it and came round and picked up everything but the larger bits.

Then we found out the DN was going to come and live with us (lost his parents a while ago, granny not coping, refusing school etc.). He's 12 and we now have permanent care of him. He has the bedroom and we are in the attic with the cot and the desk. I wrote to LL and asked if we could put his sofa in his storage so we could put a sofabed in the sitting room but he said no (no room).

I have nowhere to go (DP works late), nowhere to put the baby down (ditto), not even room for a bedside lamp (mattress squashed in corner) and I have to squeeze past the cot to get to my bed. We're trying to get used to parenting a 12 yo and baby is not yet 1. I just can't cope with another 9 months.

I just wrote to the LL to ask him how he felt about us subletting but keeping liability and managing the new tenants. I expect he'll say no, because although he's a very, very nice and decent person, it's a bit of a strange arrangement. i don't know what to do.

I have a 3 bed flat round the corner, the contract ends in 2 months so I could give them notice.

I just feel like I can't do it to him, he's such a great guy and just taking a year out with his young family. I know he doesn't have much money.

Have no idea what to do but feel my new family, and possibly my relationship could be under terrible strain over the next 9 months.

I feel I should be more assertive and insist. Would that be really really unreasonable?

It's nice that you are thinking about what would and would not be unreasonable

But IMO you need to have regard to the legality of your situation. I'd be surprised if you were on anything other than a standard assured shorthold tenancy, and most of those arrangements do NOT allow for subletting.

Therefore you would not have any right to insist. However the good news is that they only last for 6 months, therefore you could give your nice landlord notice and leave at the appointed time.

Speaking as a landlord, there is absolutely no way I would allow any subletting arrangement, but your landlord might be nicer (or in a worse plight) than I am

No I would not agree to subletting either. It is automatic breach of contract on most ast's and with good reason.

Your ll probably won't get a tenant if you give notice after six months. I feel sorry for him.

Your best bet is to stay in touch with him all the time. There may be a chance that his stay abroad is extended I. Which case he may be happier to look for a new tenant and you can liaison about a timetable that suits you both. However IF you really want to move before the co tract allows, offer up front to pay the costs. He will know then that you understand his position.

You absolutely do have a genuine/legitimate problem - and I applaud you for taking in your nephew in his time of need. But, by your own admission, you 'messed the landlord around' in early dealings, and then miscommunicated/failed to communicate on a few other occasions which caused some issues. It all adds up to you being very 'hard work' as a tenant - even though the current situation is due to you/dp being 'good Samaritans' to your nephew. He may not be able to/be inclined to be lenient in this situation.

Would it make a difference if your dp found another place to work for the remainder of the lease and thus could move out some of the big/bulky furniture? Perhaps he could pull a favour with a colleague/friend to share their work space short-term, or even rent a room somewhere?

Was there any financial provision left for your nephew by his parents/family? Any funds that you could access to help you now you need a bigger place to accomodate him, and he is a minor?

Thanks for the replies!

Quattro and Inertia, i'm only asking the landlord and would never do anything without his go ahead. The lease we signed was with a major high street agency, was about 25 pages long and has no break clause so we're here for another 9 months under the contract. I think it's very clear that we can't legally sublet. Inertia, good idea about the social worker, we do have one and I'll ask her.

If my tenants wanted to sublet because they wanted to move in with their boyfriend I wouldn't necessarily put myself out. But if someone in their close family died leaving children to be cared for, I don't think I'd hesitate.

Earlybird, thanks for your kind words (pic of DN and DS on my profile). LL is such a decent guy I think he will help us if he can. He is a doctor and will understand that people die. Of course we don't have the contract on our side, but we would be willing to remain liable and bear costs, plus manage the flat. Is it so very bad to ask? I have already notified him that DN has moved in so he knows we're up against it.

Basically the reason why I posted is that although this is inconvenient for the landlord, it won't actually cost him any money, it will be stressful and annoying though. But for my new family it's pretty crucial.

If we move the desk downstairs it will be better for DS but worse for the rest of us because we won't be able to hang out in the sitting room, playing scrabble and talking in the evenings (DP requires silence). I think the family atmosphere is v. imp for DN right now. And I would like him to do his homework in the SR with me rather than in his bedroom.

BY the way, by subletting, I mean find new tenants and arrange a 9 month lease.

And no money either. Despite the fact that some close members of DP's family have an estate in France plus houses in Monaco and HK and a huge flat in central London for their daughter's use on the odd weekend she fancies the theatre etc. etc. We asked, they said they are a bit pushed themselves .

Sorry no advice but just wanted to say I hope you manage to get something sorted. Hopefully your landlord will be understanding given the circumstances.

The pic of DN & DS is so cute

Well, it will cost the ll money if you don't find a tenant, as he won't be covering the cost on his flat. You may as someone else has said have to pay the rent on the 1 bed and move back to your 3 bed.

Scary, we are not suggesting moving out unless we can find another tenant. I have guaranteed the ll we won't land him with extra costs. We just need to sort out our unusual situation.

THere's no way we could pay the rent on our 2bed while we move back to ours. Who on earth could do this? Especially when they have acquired two children in the space of a year.

Would it be possible to move some of the bigger furniture to a self store? They used to be really popular about 10 years ago but I'm not sure if the same can be said now. Alternatively, could your DH rent an office to work in, or part of an office.

Are you sure your DS couldn't share with DN? If its just for 9 months then surely your DN will understand?

Could you give notice to your tenants on your 3 bed then let 2 of the rooms out to cover part of the costs and then your dh use the other room for his work? Or just give notice to 2 of the tenants if they let the rooms individually.

You could move the landlords sofa to d's room in this flat and get a sofabed for the living room of your flat. Ikea do cheap sofabeds and also fold out tables and folding chairs so that you could have a table to eat together in the evenings. You could sleep on the sofabed, ds in loft room and dn in bedroom.

ALternatively I see from your profile that you are in London - are you near the large central London flat that family keep so their dd can spend occasional weekends in London? Could your dh work here? Then you wouldn't need to give notice to the tenants on your other flat. Or could you all move there until this lease is up with their dd staying in your current flat when she visits London?

If I was your landlord I would decline your request. I accept you are in a difficult situation but there is no way that I would allow someone to let out my family home to someone I had never met when I was on the other side of the world. YANBU to ask but I wouldn't hold your breath. SO looking for practical solutions is your best bet.

Hi Single, this was the plan we started out with but somehow in reality it hasn't happened. If he's in his room building one of his kits and the baby is ready for a nap, I had to ask him to bring it all through to the sr, or ask him if he minds not coming into the sr for a few hours while DS naps on the sofa. We both hated it. DS naps for up 2-3 hours in the morning plus an hour's nap in the afternoon but does not sleep through the night and wakes at 6am. Seeing as he has to go to school it just seemed unworkable. It may be a way forward in the future though. Or I might try again in termtime.

Totally agree with kreecher. I was going to suggest that you swap the sofas in storage, so you don't have the landlord's bulky sofa and you can have your sofa and/or a sofa bed. And that your DP rents some office space (not sure if the satellite dish setup is anything to do with his work though, so maybe he can't work in an ordinary office).

It's an unusual situation so perhaps it'll appeal to his better nature, but I would be very hesitant to go ahead with the sub-letting on a flat that is actually his family home. It's one thing if it's a buy-to-let investment that he's never going to live in, but his own flat is something totally different. My cousin lived abroad for a few years and rented out their family home, and when they came back it was in such a horrendous state that they had to sell it because it was just too upsetting to live in it again after it was basically trashed.

Thanks Alicet, you make really good positive suggestions, but not sure I can apply any of them. Tenants are all friends in a share, so would not be split up. Sofa wouldn't fit in DN's room, too big and unwieldy. Would cost a lot to store. DP can only work here with dish, we couldn't afford to rent an office and none would allow the bloody dish anyway plus his hours are very late and early. We are near the large central london flat owned by a close member of our family but are not even invited to visit let alone avail ourselves! I'm quite sure their DD wouldn't dirty her shoes at ours. We even asked her squillionnaire dad to pay of his mentally ill brother (DP's dad) debt to DP (several thousand pounds spent helping him out of dire straits) under the circs but he said no because obviously with a child at university he doesn't have any cash to spare (spoken from his massive Monaco house ). He also has a 5 bed in London.

Jadey thanks!

Don't know whether this would stack financially but the LL may be more willing to cooperate if you were willing to pay him some extra rent for the inconvenience. Would need to be more than nominal so say £100 (a relatively small percentage for a London flat). Also you'd need to ensure that whoever you got in had just as good a references and credit rating as you had. Whilst you may be on the hook financially still, as the LL I'd be concerned that you'd be less likely to pay in the event of damage or a default once you'd moved out.

curableromantic anychance you could give notice to your tenants and then when they had gone rent out 2 of the rooms with your dh keeping one to work in? And store your landlords sofa in this room (so in your own flat not the one you are living in) or even elsewhere in this flat and expect to pay for it to be replaced if your tenants damage it? Would this work with he big satellite dish? If you are planning to give tenants notice so that you can move in once your 12 month lease is up then paying to move this isn't such a big deal I guess.... Could that work?

Oh and you say flat owned by millionaire isn't an option - have you actually asked? See totally why you wouldn't want to go begging but if there is no other option?

Asking for money is one thing (agree that they are living on another planet and are well out of order for not helping out if dn is related to them too) but maybe they actually have no ready cash if its all tied up but could provide the practical help of letting you used the flat? Even if just for dh to work out of so that it doesn't have to affect their dd coming up to London?

Sorry but I just don't get people who are as unhelpful as your relatives. In thier situation I would have offered use of their flat and financial suport without being asked!!! I guess that is why I am never going to be a millionaire isn't it....

Alicet, it kind of works the other way round, I suggested to DP that he carried on working here (where the dish is all set up etc) and rented out the other room to someone for about half the rent, then we all lived in my flat. I'm still pushing that one but DP is not so keen because he works so much he'd hardly see us.

I could see your landlord being more happy to go with that if your dh was going to be using the flat too so could be keeping a close eye on things.

If your dh is working so hard he doesn't see much of you anyway he needs to see how restrictive this makes things for the rest of you - that your son can't have naps without everyone else being quiet and that you can't go to bed when he is working.

Have you heard back from your landlord?

Alicet, DP's mum went to his wife's gallery exhibition with the express intention of putting our case. They took her out for dinner to a hugely expensive restaurant and she asked them very clearly. She is horrified her ex-husband owes us so much money when we are giving everything we have. Rich uncle gives his brother a hundred quid a month as an allowance because he is incapable of managing his own life efficiently and ends up not being able to eat (then phones us and begs us to wire him money). She said she really laid it out for them, how much we needed the help, or at least repay the money his brother owes us. They said no. A flat no. They need their money. They are awash with cash. The other side of the family too, have wads of it, but will give nothing, they won't even have DN for a holiday in their massive house with the other DNs (from DP's brother) so it was for us to take them on holiday for the last 3 years.

I hate tight people

No word back yet but he is in Oz. If he wasn't such a lovely person I wouldn't feel so bad asking. I bet he rues the day he met us. But also, he gets 500 pw for this flat, it's NOT cheap. I wouldn't give him extra money, as I believe he must either trust me or not. We did have quite a rapport when we met so hopefully he is one of those people who will put their faith in others rather than bullshit contracts, guarantees and checks. It's not SUCH a big deal because we have a guarantor who would ultimately be liable (the agency needed us to have a salary in excess of 120k to rent the flat without one).

Your relatives are in that case tight fisted twats.

Fingers crossed your landlord agrees but have to say I still don't think I would if I was them.

Didn't say before but you are doing a wonderful thing to give your dn a home in these circumstances especially at great hardship to yourselves. Not sure if I believe in karma but if it exists your relatives are onto a loser whereas great things will be ahead for you! All the best x

You should remember where the balance of "power" and observation is. LL is in s* here too; so long as he ends up getting secure income and a property in 1 piece he is vv likely to be happy.

In my view it is principally a matter of communication; physically you appear to have little choice.

Were your squillionaire rels in the running for taking care of DN ?