to send this email?

[kickassangel]

not wanting to go into too much detail, but does this email sound ok to send, or do i sound like a completely neurotic bitch?

dh went out to play golf yesterday - i thought for a few hours, turned out to be 7 hours, with his female 'golf buddy' who i think he's been spending too much time with.

i got vv upset & it ended with a volley of phone calls & a huge row between me & dh. now i'm not even sure if he wants to stay married & can't sleep or cope at all really.

he still wants to go & play golf again this weekend, because he works hard & deserves some time off. he does work hard, he does deserve a break. he also likes to escape, partly because i can be too clingy & controlling, BUT i think a man who is not sure whether he wants to stay married should not be going off for an entire day, including several hours in the pub, with his best mate's wife, just the two of them.

if this sounds familiar, i posted about 'round one' of this last week. i think he's just using her as an escape & a bit of an 'emotional affair' but am now not sure. anyway, i think i do owe her an explanation as she must have noticed the increasingly terse phone calls when she was with him (yet still they stayed out), and i wonder if sending her an email would get relayed back to him. of course, it wouldn't prove anything, except how 'good' their friendship is & how on the outside i am.

so - your thoughts on me sending this.

Dear D

After my phone calls interrupted your drinks last night, i feel that I owe you an explanation. As you have noticed, I am finding it very difficult being at home without a job. In fact, as soon as dd is back at school, I will be seeing the doctor about ongoing depression, and lack of sleep.

The move here has been very hard for me to adapt to, and staying home all the time is something I struggle with. I am constantly homesick and lonely.

Of course H deserves some time to unwind at the weekend, but I need time for that as well. I want him to have friends and hobbies, but I actually get very anxious when he is out of the house, particularly when, like yesterday, I was expecting him home several hours earlier than he appeared.

I don't want to get you involved with our silly marital tiffs, but just trying to let you know why I 'need' to know what H is up to atm. Normally, I am far more laid back about these things, but until I can get some ads, sleeping pills & counselling (or anything else i can 'score' from the doctor), I will remain in an anxious state, and lack of sleeping is killing me right now.

xxx

It's a really bad idea, isn't it?
if nothing is going on, then i look like even more of a loon than i do already, if something is going on, they will just ping this back & forth between them & dh will have one more thing to get mad at me about.

i have to go out with dd now, for several hours, but would like to know what people think. i sleep so badly anyway, even sleeping tablets are of no use, and I have lost all perspective.

btw, she is supposed to be my friend, & suffers from anxiety herself, so i would expect her to understand.

What an awful situation to be in. Your H's 'need' for a break and golf/pub time should come after your need for some support. You sound like you are really struggling and this should be a priority in your relationship, not his jollies.

I would be very suspicious of my H spending this sort of time with another woman. Why couldn't they text you from the pub and invite you to join them if it's so nearby?

There is nothing wrong in expressing unhappiness or a feeling of threat about this sort of relationship, to your H. He should take it as very sincere concern for the state of your marriage. If he is annoyed with you expressing it, or denies your right to have such concerns, it will speak volumes.

I have been in that type of situation and it's horrid. MN was great for me to be able to do some reality checking of what other people found acceptable - it's hard when you're so sleep deprived to get a sense of what is normal.

Look, I'm sorry if this is going to sound harsh, but I think it needs to be.

I have a male best friend. I spend time alone with him whether he has a girlfriend or not. Sometimes we go out for the day together. Just because he has a penis and I have a vagina does not mean that our friendship is a cover for some torrid sexual affair. We are friends, that is all. Do not rally on this poor woman, who very likely has done nothing wrong. All you will do is make your DH think you are paranoid and daft and trying to restrict the friends he spends time with on the basis of gender is only going to push him further away from you. You also shouldn't expect to be any more included in this friendship than any other of your DH's, and your perceived exclusion from it can only really be serious if you are not excluded from his male friendships.

If there is something wrong in your marriage, it will be wrong whether this woman is present or not. It would be wrong if she was a man as well. Perhaps this bothers me more than others because I know what it's like to be the female best friend who the girlfriends are wary of, but seriously, this woman will present no more threat than is already there. You need to focus on you and your DH and stop allowing his friendship with this woman to cloud things. At most, it will be a red herring, disguising another more important issue.

I'm really sorry if that sounds horrible. I am not trying to upset you, but I have been on the other side of this and the GF or DW's jealousy only ever causes problems in the relationship. I really hope you can settle things. Please don't send that email, it won't make you feel any better and almost certainly will get back to your DH. Can you honestly see something good coming from sending it? I can't....

Ultimately, remember this; you're the one he married :).

I agree 100% with Lucy.

As I said, would you feel the same way if the pal were a man? You are upset at not being included but do you even play golf?

If I were you, and stuck at home, while your husband is out playing golf, I would not fight a losing battle against a favourite pastime, but join in!

I was sick of dh going out cycling without me, so I told him this, and he bought me a bicycle!

Tell your husband:

"Darling, I can see how much pleasure golf is giving you, it is really great. I need to get out of the house, and I would also like to spend some time with you, I really think I should take up golf. I will come with you this weekend, and we will find a babysitter so we can have a good time bonding over golf!"

Or something to that effect.

If someone send me that email I would think that they sounded

a) desperately unhappy
b)a bit of a loon and
c) that her DH was a selfish bastard.

7 hours playing golf when your wife is suffering from depression, gets very anxious and could use some support is extremely self-centred.

My DH works damn hard but arranges his "me-time" (and how I hate that poxy expression) so that we have plenty of time to spend as a family. He gets up at 7am on Sunday morning to go cycling.

Why is your DH not there for you more? I can understand if the golf is a couple times a year, but this is a regular occurance?

I would be pissed off at the hours spent drinking afterwards though.

I mean when you have a family, there often has to be some compromise, doesn´t there?

Are you able to get any professional help in dealing with your depression?

A couple of things leapt out at me from your post, Kickass:

"...she must have noticed the increasingly terse phone calls when she was with him (yet still they stayed out)"

Hmm...and she was your friend but now she's being more distant? If I was out with a male friend knowing his wife was getting more and more distressed, I'd send him home! I'd feel very uncomfortable about it. It may all be very innocent, but there must have been a "Sod her, let's carry on having fun" conversation. Not nice.

Also "he also likes to escape, partly because i can be too clingy & controlling"
is that you saying that or him?

This can't go on, but an email isn't going to stop it. I feel sorry for you. Hope you get some sleep soon.

right, back for a bit.

valhalla - she is the complete opposite of confident, she is neurotic & prone to anxiety attacks. she sacked her therapist because she wasn't getting enough attention from her. she also is so upset by her own dh having female friends, that when they come to stay, she leaves town for the week.

the original plan was that we would all play golf. her dh wasn't that interested. we couldn't get childcare so that both dh & I could go, but the plan was that once he'd had his intro lessons, i'd go along after & he'd stay home with dd. now it is his 'me time', he can go out as long as he likes, i'm not allowed to phone to ask him to come home. every time they go to the pub for a 'quick drink' which takes several hours.apparently, he wants a hobby outside the house & doesn't see why i should have to barge in on his fun, even though we'd be learning together.

dd has been on summer vacation for 3 months and i have not had even half an hour of 'me time' during the entire stretch. apparently, that is ok cos what i am doing is fun (and it is), but HE won't stay home to look after dd & do fun things with her - if i go out (to the stores) he just lets her read/play on the ds & there is 0 interaction with her.

i was good friends with her & we used to go out. now she cancels on me, or it turns into a group thing. she also takes ages to reply to emails/fb (yet her iphone is permanently by her & being answered), and, recently, it is only after i mention to dh that she hasn't got back to me that i get a response.

we both acknowledge that i can be too clingy, but i really fight against this side of my nature, often doing things to divert myself, rather than give in. but recently he has been 'absent' too much, doesn't want to go out for his birthday, just wants another full day of golf (while i get no time off). he wasn't even happy when i suggested me getting a part time job, as he doesn't want to work full time, then look after dd, cos i'm home with nothing to do all day & it isn't fair. well, he's right, it's not fair, but i gave up a career & my entire life to follow his job to the US, so i think i deserve the right to work. he's about to cut his pay in half and tells me i should just give up my gym membership to help save money, not to worry.

lucylou - i agree. there is nothing wrong in the marriage that isn't there anyway, but if he is unhappy (now he is saying he is, that he has never been happy, didn't i know etc. funny, we just went on holiday for a week and never fell out) then spending ever increasing amounts of time with another woman, who at the same time is freezing me out, feels very much like an affair, even if it's just some kind of 'soul mates meeting'

i have no idea how her dh feels, and would never ask him.

on reflection, the email i WANT to send reads 'get your fucking hands off my fucking husband, you psycho bitch queen from hell' but that's not very polite.

and, of course, i may just be neurotic & paranoid, so should just keep my mouth shut. last night he was saying that i have mental health problems, and that's why i can't handle the situation.

If my DH was out every week with a woman who once once my friend but who now avoids me, playing golf and drinking, I would have entirely reasonable concerns about their relationship.

So you have 'mental health' issues and you 'can't handle the situation.' Wow, thanks for the reassurance, comfort and support.

What he is in effect doing is making any objection to him seeing this woman, on his terms, a symptom of your alleged mental health issues. He seems v. protective of the relationship with her.

What would happen if you asked him to skip next week's game?

Right, so you're blatantly paranoid something is going on with this friend. I'm battling against telling you to grow up, because I realise there are very real issues here for you, but you quite seriously need some help to deal with this. Would your DH be open to going to Relate with you? Blaming this friend of his is a smokescreen. He's hanging out with her because he wants to, you have no right to restrict his friends without grounds and you have no real grounds here other than your paranoia, which will not be solved by getting rid of the friend.

I think you need to have a heart to heart with your DH and in all honesty, I think you could benefit from some counselling. You're going to make yourself crazy if you allow this train of thought to run too long.

Has your DH got real grounds for saying you have mental health problems? And do you, deep down, think he would cheat with this woman?

nomedoit - my male friend and I are protective of our friendship, mainly because we've had so much crap over it, from people who can't deal with the fact we're both heterosexual and of the opposite sex. Still doesn't mean we're having sex though. Or ever would. Not meaning you, but there are some very very narrowminded people who do not/will not/can not understand mixed sex friendships.

I'm starting to get very angry on your behalf. You seem so isolated.

Is there no way you can bring dc(s?) home for an extended visit? That way (d)h can play all the golf he fucking wants.

But kickass the problem is not this woman's behaviour. It is entirely your dh's, for thinking it's okay to go out playing golf and leaving you at home. If he will look after dd and she has more reading/ds time than you would like - fine. Do it. He needs to get the message that you deserve 'me-time' as much as anyone else.

Your mental health probably is being affected by the quality (or lack thereof) of your sleep. So his response should be about facilitating some improvement in that. You could go to a hotel, have a spa/sleep day.

Clearly you are struggling, and he is failing to acknowledge that, and is making it worse by his attitude/actions. He is acting badly, and is casting you as the 'villain'.

I think you need to find a way to get on top of this.

At the moment, he is off having 'fun' and doesn't want to come home to a depressed, isolated, unhappy, paranoid (and whatever else he wants to call it) wife.

Forget him for a moment, as he seems completely unsympathetic. What can you do to make things better for yourself? Can you get some counselling? Anti-depressants?

What can you do to make yourself less isolated and lonely? How can you begin to regain your 'spark'? Can someone from home (family, friends) come for an extended visit? Can you go there? Do you exercise?

Don't wait on him to make life better for you. Think about how you might be able to improve your own situation. Obviously, you can't go on like this.

Finally, let me say how sorry I am that you are in this situation. It sounds unbearable.

Well 7 hours every week when you have a young family is too much - doesn't matter who it's with. DH and I would both like to piss off on our respective outside the home hobbies for 7 hours a week and go for a jolly drink with friends afterwards but we don't because er we have children.

Occasionally he has a day/weekend away. Occasionally I do. But it's 50:50 and requested and appreciated.

YOu don't have mental health problems you have a selfish husband.

However the best way to deal with it is probably to go out and do your own thing as much you can (difficult when you're the only adult prepared to be responsible for the children I know).

there are plenty of women that he's been friends with over the years and it hasn't caused problems. less than 2 years ago we moved to the US & although i have loads of people i am friendly with, it is not like my lifelong friends from home. we have had heart to hearts, and gone from him saying he thought it a little odd how her dh didn't get invited, to him basically saying he IS playing golf for a whole day at the weekend, without me even allowed to call by, chat & see how they get on, and that if i don't allow him he'll leave. (at one point, it was going to be me & her playing golf, and the dh's having their lessons another time, til her dh dropped out, so i said my dh should go first cos he works so hard)

so i don't think it's overly paranoid to wonder what is going on, especially as less than 2 months ago he'd rarely had any one-to-one conversations with her.

i do get bouts of depression, but not long term. they are hormone driven - pregnancy/ivf/the pill send me into a complete loony tune - to the point i had emergency psychiatric support during my pregnancy. how i have felt this summer is close to back then. i know it's horrible for him to work all day & come home to a wife who is sobbing & paranoid. i can see his point of view, BUT, whilst he tells me i'm ill, he's not ready to give any support, cos i have it easy at home while he works.

tbh, i think me not being able to work (just got green cards a few weeks ago, so not even allowed to do voluntary work before then) has been a fucking disaster for us all. i'm crap at being the one stuck at home, i hate it
& always knew this about myself. the comment about not wanting to look after dd if i got bar work etc has upset me so much. i think that he will just have to 'suck it up' if i start working evenings.

whether or not he is cheating (and i don't think he is)or just got a new buddy that i'm not allowed to speak to is irrelevant really. the main point is that i feel horribly sidelined & not allowed to have my say, i have no close friend to go out with for the day - SHE was my friend to do that with, so it is a double blow. hence why i wondered if a direct email would make her think a bit - she has had a lot of therapy in the past, so should have some sympathy for a 'friend' who feels so bad?

as soon as dd is back at school i'm going to the doctors, if only for some decent sleeping pills that actually work.

Perhaps you could post in the living overseas topic to get some advice from other expats.

It is incredibly hard being the "Trailing Spouse" as they so charmingly call us. So many marriages break up under the strain. It is very important that you and your husband pull together and work out what can be changed so that you do not feel so sidelined.

You made the move, gave up your career to enable him to further his career. Now it is time for him to step up to the plate and allow you to get back on track.

Set the issue with the other woman aside for now. You need to go back to work, work on your self-esteem (which will improve your mental health) and stop letting him dictate your life.

You know, if you were to send an email it should perhaps be something along the lines of.

"Amanda, what are you actually playing at? I considered you a friend, but now I am not so sure anymore. Should I be concerned about the interest you are showing my husband? Up to recently I would turn to you for friendship and support, but you seem to be more interested in my husband these days. I am concerned about you. How is your marriage and your homelife?"

or something....

"If I don't allow him, he'll leave..."

Time to get real here, methinks. If it were me, I know exactly what I would say to that, after the clubs had gone in the skip.

"Can I help you pack?"

Roughly where are you in the US, Kiss?

Kickass I have no wise words of advice for you but I wanted to say how much I empathise with you. As others have said being a trailing spouse puts an enormous strain on a marriage. It is a unique situation that is different for everyone. I hope that you manage to sort out any problems.

Look, it's about perception. If you're uncomfortable about it, then that's enough.

My DH has female friends, and for the most part, I have no objections whatsoever to him spending (some) time with them as I am not threatened by them in any way. But, in 15 years of marriage there have been two occasions when he's got matey with new colleagues and I've thought, "hang on, I'm not comfortable with this" and we've discussed it. And for all he's adamant that it's not a threat to us, my thing is that that's not the point. My intuitive bells are ringing and whilst I trust him, I do not trust them. And because he loves me and knows that I don't often pull this card, he's stopped the banter/golf/drink after work/whatever. And if the situation were reversed, and he expressed unhappiness with something I was doing, I'd stop doing it too.

But if your DH is saying things like "if you try to stop me, I'll leave" then it looks like the issue runs deeper than a few games of golf.
I feel for you.