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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wish I could have Chris Woodhead's education Q&A in the Sunday Times for one week?

25 replies

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 08:31

Question:

My six-year old grandson starts his third year at primary school in September and will have the same teacher as he has had for the past two years. My daughter has taken up the matter with the headmaster, as she feels the teacher has no control over most of the children. My grandson, who is highly intelligent, needs a teacher strong enough to take control. The headmaster says there is nothing he can do about it. Surely this next year will hold my grandson back and he will be more distruptive.

Come on. What would your reply be?

OP posts:

deaddei · 30/08/2010 08:37

Perhaps your daughter needs to address her son's behaviour, rather than criticise the teacher.

Goblinchild · 30/08/2010 08:44

I think having the same teacher for three years in a row is a bad idea in any school, whoever the teacher is.
So I'd suggest that you move schools.

corndrinksgin · 30/08/2010 08:46

what did Chris Woodhead say?

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 08:49

OK this is his reply:

"If the teacher cannot control the children, he or she shouldn't be teaching. The head teacher's attitude is not good enough. Complain to the school's governing body and copy your letter to the director of children's services at the local authority.

"If you can involve other parents in your complaint, it will strengthen your case."

What d'you think?

OP posts:

ssd · 30/08/2010 08:54

I agree with him 100%

there are too many crap teachers who shouldn't be in the job, meanwhile there are lots of fresh eager newly qualified teachers who can't get jobs as the crap lot won't leave

this man is no nonsense and knows what he's talking about

corndrinksgin · 30/08/2010 08:55

Bit OTT. I agree with deaddei. Poor teacher with nightmare parents/grandparents like that.

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 08:59

ssd do you not think at least one line to the tune of "perhaps your grandson's behaviour could be worked on by the family rather than making it the responsibility of the school" might have been in order?

OP posts:

ssd · 30/08/2010 09:01

yes \i agree with that too balloon

but I do think/know there are too many crap teachers out there

violethill · 30/08/2010 09:17

Chris woodhead is a right knobber! Am tempted to write in a question querying staff student relationships at teacher training colleges!

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 10:50

Why's that violet? I mean the question, not the opinion

OP posts:

violethill · 30/08/2010 10:54

Erm...isn't it fairly common knowledge that he was into a bit of extra curricular with young student teachers?

Goblinchild · 30/08/2010 10:54

Chris likes intelligent, attractive students. He taught on a course I was on, and showed excellent taste in selecting the cream of the crop for his personal attention (not me)
They were both consenting adults, and she was very happy about it.
It wasn't the same relationship that hit the press.

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 10:58

Oooh!

Well when you mentioned it, it rang a bell which is why I asked.

"You dirty old man."

OP posts:

violethill · 30/08/2010 10:59

I know teachers who were trained by him too, and apparently he was very much in favour of many of the progressive methods he now despises. Just appears a massive hypocrite to me.

Original poster

BalloonSlayer · 30/08/2010 11:05

Shame he can't be honest with the answers (and I guess there is a lack of space) and try to explain what things are really like for teachers.

I am not a teacher BTW, but I'd guess that in a case like the question being asked, there had been an attempt made to address disruption by moving some kids and not others, ie splitting up a pair of friends who egg each other on. And one kid gets left in the same class.

Every year parents go stomping in to school to complain about the classes their DCs have been allocated. It must drive headteachers barmy.

I can imagine there must be a lot of horse-trading that goes on between the teachers:

"Oy! You're not taking Simon Helpful AND Emma Einstein and leaving me with BOTH Princessa Entitlement and Asbo Bumface. You've got to SHARE."

OP posts:

brassband · 30/08/2010 11:12

'Erm...isn't it fairly common knowledge that he was into a bit of extra curricular with young student teachers?

His ex-wife says he had an affair with a pupil whilst she (the pipil) was still at school.Mr Woodhead is on record as telling a paper that 'relationships between teachers and their pupils could be "educative". although he says the relatuionship started several years after he had been her teacher

violethill · 30/08/2010 11:12

I agree BalloonSlayer - it's a totally lightweight response which doesn't actually address anything. It assumes that the mother is totally accurate in her assumption that the teacher is incompetent. For a start, I would question how any parent would know that without being in the classroom regularly, sitting in on staff meetings, appraisal meetings etc. Of course, some parents just rely on playground tittle tattle which is hardly the same thing.

Secondly, it assumes that the child has no responsibility to learn to control their own behaviour. A child in their 3rd year at school should not be totally reliant on external controls; they should be developing self regulation. No mention of that whatsoever.

TBH though, I'm very wary of any letter written to the Sunday Times by 'concerned grandparents' - it smells of busybodying by people with too much time on their hands to me! Please shoot me if I ever become the sort of grandparent who writes to Chris Woodhead about my grandchildren's education, or indeed, if I ever buy the Sunday Times

brassband · 30/08/2010 11:22

Back to the OP

In some small schools there will be only 1 'infants' class which will encompass R-Y2 so there is no way round having the same teacher 3 yrs in a row.

However I really empathise with the OP and the 'teacher not being able to control the class scenario'.At our school they had an infants teacher who was quite strict and kept the class in order but parents didn't like her because she was too shouty.When she retired they got a cuddly mummy type figure and the kids walk all over her.
I am moving my child next year because in between nirsing along 10 reception children and preparing 6 less-able challenging behaviour Y2s for KS1 SATS , my quiet Y1 DD is going to fall between the cracks.
The bottom line is that even if theh class teacher IS found to be wanting, she has employment rights (especoally in the public sector employees are hard to remove).She would have to be given warnings and time to improve.Your child only gets one chance and time is ticking away.

echt · 30/08/2010 11:31

In answer to the question posed. What is the HT doing about it? Their job is to manage staff. If s/he can't do anything, then they should resign.

There are no crap teachers, only crap managers who sit on their hand, refusing to deal with the situation. Cannot think of one single example of entrenched shit teaching which did not involve senior managers doing fuck all/ bullying/blaming the unions, anything rather than get on with job of managing staff.

For what it's worth I've started capability procedures on useless staff, and been out on strike on behalf of lazy, gobshite teachers whose cases were mismanaged by those in charge.

And while I'm at it, a teacher's job is to teach, not "control".
Also, three years with the same teacher is very poor practice.

The disruptive kid needs a kick up the arse to be consequenced.

brassband · 30/08/2010 11:41

'control' is a prerequisite for teaching.teh other pupils need to feel safe and be able to hear and concentrate

eatyourveg · 30/08/2010 11:44

I don't think the issue is with having the same teacher for so long it is more an issue of having an incompetent teacher.

ds2 went to a very small school where there were only 3 classes and he was in each class for 2.5 years.

If the teacher is a proper teacher they should already have been differentiating all the work to cater for the complete range of abilities including your ds

When ds1 was in primary school I wrote requesting he be moved into one of the other Y1/2 classes. If you are tactful and diplomatic and use all the "in" jargon and avoid saying that the teacher is crap you could get it without a fight.

Alternatively do what I did with ds3 (again in the same primary) and just tell the head that you have no intention of letting your ds go into that class and unless he/she is prepared to consider an alternative class (assuming there is one) you will be looking at other schools

eatyourveg · 30/08/2010 11:48

For what its worth I think CW is great. Two of my children go to one of his no nonsense, no frills schools. All the teachers including the head have regular performance reviews and if you are not up to the job - you are out. Should be a nationwide policy on my book.

brassband · 30/08/2010 11:50

' if you are not up to the job - you are out.'
Are all the staff on one year contracts then?I can't see how that would work in conjunction with the unions, employment law etc?

spiritmum · 30/08/2010 11:58

In answer to the OP and the answer given, I agree 100%. I had a poor teacher at primary and even I was disruptive (I was very goody two shoes normally) because her lessons were so boring. So it was a failure of teaching rather than control and I would suggest that 6 yr olds messing about aren't being engaged as they should be.

Complain or ask for the child to be moved.

didgeridoo · 30/08/2010 12:03

I sympathise with the teacher to an extent. Some children ARE uncontrollable these days but this usually has more to do with their home environment than being the fault of the teacher. The problem is that sometimes teachers have to spend so much time "controlling" they have little time for teaching. If that's the case here & the head is also clearly at a loss to know what to do or even consider rotating the teachers more often, I'd be looking for another school.

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