to be a bit sick of people on here going on about how much harder GCSE's/O levels were in their day...blah blah blah...

[purplefish]

Some of us are very proud of our DC and know how hard they have worked to get the grades they got.

Oh, YANBU. This has been going on since I got my GCSEs...20 years ago!

Congrats to your DC :)

YABU.

I did my O Grades over 20 years ago and people came out with the same shite then.

YANBU

BarmyArmy

Yup. congratulations to everyones DC...well done all of you!

YABU.

I am sure kids are working hard but the fact is the exams are easier now than years ago. If you don't agree, explain why the pass rates are nearly 100% or why all children born are so much brighter than previous generations.

I think there is always a bit of confusion about this. It happens every year. It doesn't necessarily mean people are saying this year's cohort didn't work hard - that's the wilful misinterpretation put on it.

Results are still going up. There are, I think, four main possible explanations for this:

1. Today's teenagers are brighter than we were. By logical extension, we were brighter than our parents, and so it is a marvel any of the found their way to school or knew one end of a pencil from the other when they got there.

2. The exams are, in comparison to O-Levels, easier - or at least ask you to do things which can be more readily reproduced in exam situations.

3. Teaching is more efficient, more "targeted" to the exam, or if you want to express this more critically, less broad. Students go into exams far better prepared than we ever did, because they have more idea of what kind of thing will be on the paper.

4. The standard is about the same as it ever was, but the papers are marked less harshly - things like grammatical howlers in French, which would have lost you marks in 1987, are allowed to slide in 2010 if the communication is clear.

Take your pick. I go for 3, with a bit of 4.

Yes, it's absolutely crazy. Plus, what people tend to forget is that children take more GCSEs now than they used to. My daughter took ten and others in her class took twelve or thirteen. I don't remember anyone taking more than eight when I was at school and that too was very unusual.

They also think they themselves are absolute bloody geniuses.

They forget that an exam paper, seen through the eyes of a person aged 30-50, is a hell of a lot different to one seen by a fifteen or sixteen year old.

Happens every year. Including the year I took my GCSEs and the year I took my A-Levels. I think it's sad not only for the ones that did well, but for the ones that did well for them, but not necessarily in comparison to others. Eg, someone predicted only Es who got Cs and Ds should be very proud, rather than thinking that GCSEs are easy and they must be idiots.
I feel the same about the also controversial 'easy' subjects. People shouldn't judge without detail. I did Media in College, but I also did German, and languages are very difficult at A-Level. Sometimes students do actually do subjects they're interested in, rather than worrying about the reputation of the subject.

I don't think the exams themselves are easier, but I think you do need to know less (does that make sense?). The National Curriculum is pretty awful, tbh.

Sounds like your DC did well. Good for them, just ignore everyone else!

Sorento - That's not the only explanation! Teachers are getting better at predicting questions, and students are drilled to answer them. Also the boundaries are not the same every year.

I would be very proud of my dc too and I will be a very proud parent when the time comes. It doesn't change the fact that the format has changed so much that it is easier to do well than it was in our day. Dh took his GCSE's in 1988 and got a U in Maths he was at a loss as to where he had gone wrong as he was predicted to do well. He ended up doing A level Maths the following year by open learning despite not having the required C grade. He passed his A level with an A grade.

I took my GCSE's the following year and got a real mixed bag of results, I got an F in my English mocks but got a B grade in my actual exam. In German I got an A in my mocks but ended up with an F grade. Perhaps children are doing so well now because the examiners have finally got their act together?

I feel sorry for kids today they can't win whatever they do.

YANBU, this drives me crazy too.

Nothing but inter-generational snobbery, and a very unintelligent lack of understanding of the situation from what I can tell.

Also, I forgot this point.. GSCEs and A-Levels are increasingly coursework based, and also have modular exams. Coursework gives a better result often because students less confident in exams get more chance to show what they can do, and they are often checked by the teachers (but require no less work).
Modular exams mean shorter exams (your concentration span is about 20 minutes) and the chance for resits. Not to mention less revision to cram in.

One example, though.

You could gain a GCSE in German 4 or 5 years ago without writing a word of German. This would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. I don't know if that is still the case, but it definitely was the case 4 or 5 years ago.

Just an indisputable fact. Ramificiations and implications may be discussed :)

Uh. What UnquietDad? I did a German GCSE and I do not recall that.

No UnquietDad, that isn't the case. DS took German and got an A, he knows his German....

Ah, well, it depended on the board you went with, didn't it?

On one of them (I think AEB?) the papers were an oral, a translation into English, a listening comprehension with questions and answers in English and a written comprehension with questions and answers in English. So it tested three of the four linguistic skills - Speaking, Listening and Reading - bit not Writing.

That's just not true UD.

It's not belittling your childrens' achievements at all. I know children work hard. But things must have been downgraded if they now need to introduce A*s at GCSE and A level.

I work with a lot of graduate trainees. The company I work for only employs those who have got firsts or upper seconds at a push and only from the top universities. They are as clever as the graduates in my day but what they haven't been taught is how to question, analytical thinking, debating skills or how to structure a decent paragraph.

It's not your children who are rubbish, it's the UK education system

How do you know that UD? If you know someone who did the exam, fair enough, but if it's just a rumour it sounds unlikely to me. Also sounds like lower tier papers, and if you complete these you can't score more than a C or D I don't think.
It would still require a good knowledge of German anyway, since you'd still need to complete the Oral and be able to understand the spoken language.

My friends who work in the Higher Education sector routinely need to drill their new intake of first years in basic stuff - e.g. simple past tenses in French, and (my engineering lecturer friend tells me) Pythagoras. Some of them have simply not heard of Pythagoras

Yes, it was one particular board I knew of and I think it was lower tier papers - and indeed if you only do those you cannot get more than a C. That doesn't negate one word of what I said - that you could PASS a GCSE in German at that time without writing a word of German.

don't know about GCSEs but isn't it the case with regard to A Levels that universities are having to run catch up classes in the first term because the current A Level is no longer preparing students to the required standard?

It does seem that an extraordinary number of pupils get a lot of As at GCSE, at my school even the super bright people were unlikely to get more than 2 or 3 As in their O Levels.

It's seems very unfair on today's pupils because if it is the case then despite their best efforts they are not necessarily being properly prepared for the next stage in their lives. And I don't know who is meant to be gaining anything by making the exams easier.

LadyBiscuit - I find that quite surprising to be honest. Many of my GCSEs and all of my A-Levels required analytical thinking and debating (including in German and French).

YANBU

My brother teaches A Level Maths and doesn't think its any easier now than when he took it 30 years ago.

Give the kids some credit FFS. Even if the exams were proven to be easier (I don't think they are) - the kids of today have to deal with a tougher time in schools. My son has had 5 maths teachers in the last year, and has practically self-taught himself to getting decent grades whilst experiencing bullying, and disruptive classrooms.

They HAVE to get higher grades because the competition for jobs is higher. They face University debts and hardly any prospect of getting on the property ladder.

Let them have at least one day where they feel they have achieved something!

Two of my DC just sat A levels and GCSEs.. DD1 took Maths, Bio and Chem at A2 and it was definitely NOT easier than in my day. Different.yes.. the modular system allows the kids to do their best in sections rather than win or lose on a couple of exams at the end! Personally I think it is a better system, and the quality of teacher IS higher now.

My daughters worked very hard to get their (brilliant..insert proud Mummy face here) grades and it really hacks me off when their achievements are denigrated in this way. My DS 1 took his GCSEs last year, and didn't come out with a clutch of As..his bunch of Cs accurately reflected his ability (and lack of work as DDs A*s reflected theirs.

On top of that, the competition for good Uni places is far harder than when I went 22 years ago. ~DD1 has a place at Med school and the competition was incredible..

I think it's time we were proud of our young people and stopped knocking them!

steps off soap box :)

Hear hear, Jazzchickens and kidsncatsnwine!!!