To want to take DD out of this Nursery?

[twinklingfairy]

DD has started Nursery now and I am v v worried about how it is being run.
The lady who is running it seems very bored of the whole thing.
Because of the new thingumy for excellence, seems to me that she has taken it as an excuse to sit back on her laurels and just let them have 'freeplay' ie she doesn't need to do anything because she is not meant to 'teach' them anything anyway. They are meant to 'learn through play' so why not just let them play and see what they achieve in their own.
Very worried.
Have taken DD to another group but it is a wee drive away from us and it seems a bit daft to take her out of this group and into another when this is the group that she will go to school with.
Confused as to what to do.
I want to knee jerk and just not bother with nursery at all but it seems silly.
Other option is that I go in a couple of times a week with her, that way they might pull up their socks cos somone is there to make sure that they do. But should I have to do that.
I really hoped to spend this year in a primary class, to try to help my chances of getting on the primary teaching course. The local after school club could take DS for a couple of hours whilst DD is in nursery, giving me those 2 hours to spend in a class.
Though the course is not open to me for 2 years, I guess I could give over some of my time, this year, to make sure that my DD is getting the best she can?
Or do I take her all the way out to this other place? Means a whole load of running around, not to mention pertol costs, and is it really worth it. does it matter that much?
Are you confused? I certainly am!

"Because of the new thingumy for excellence, seems to me that she has taken it as an excuse to sit back on her laurels and just let them have 'freeplay' ie she doesn't need to do anything because she is not meant to 'teach' them anything anyway. They are meant to 'learn through play' so why not just let them play and see what they achieve in their own."

Are you sure this is the case????? the EYFS encourages free play and child led activities, YES children learn through play but its up to the practitioner to enrich the child's environment to enable them to learn and develop.
Have you asked to see their planning? asked how they observe children and plan next steps? Ask them how they will meet your child's needs?
Im sure you will find out that whilst the child just plays the practitioner will be observing and adapting to meet the child's needs.

You don't say how old your DD is, or if you have concerns other than the amount of free play she does at Nursery.
I would consider whether my child was happy and being physically cared for properly. I think if she is playing with other DC and learning to socialize, then there is plenty of time to learn other things. You can teach her numbers/letters etc at home, you don't need a nursery to do this although it's nice if they do.
Maybe you are over reacting a little.

There are 19 children in the class and only 2 leaders.
I stayed and played the other day and it was chaos!
I ask how they make it structured play yet it is free play? The 2 statements seem to contradict themselves? She just kinda shrugged. I certainly did not see any structure, nor guidance. TBH I saw very little interaction. One leader I barely saw, the other, after snack, sent the children to the other end of the room whilst she stood at the top and had a chat. I corolled them to where she had indicated she wanted them, sorted out a scuffle, sent one child to the corner besause he was not behaving or doing as he had been told.
When she returned I suggested that she congratulate them as they had done so well in actually following through her instruction. She did so but halfheartedly.

That all makes me sound very busy body, but I have stayed and played with this bunch of children when it was playgroup, so knew them all well. And she did congratulate me on handling them so well, saying they could do with me in the class more.
DD is nearly 4.

twinklingfairy - surely they have to have more staff I thought the minimum was 1:8 staff whhich would mean they would have to have 3 staff.

BUT I am a great be;iever that children should only play before they start school - I don't agree with any 'structured' play at all (and i have had 2 dds go through this at nursery). Your dd will spend enough time learning and having structured play when she sdtarts school. I believ children should be have much more freedom in nursery (flame me if you wish!!!).

Is she safe? Is she happy?

And would she get more structure, education or socialisation at home?

When you think of it, children whose parents don't opt to send them to nursery don't seem to suffer unless they get no input or interaction at home.

Maybe you're expecting too much of the type of care you've chosen. I can't comment as my DDs are teenagers and only went to nursery for a couple of months anyway and learned a lot at home, but perhaps what you're expecting is more the type of provision supplied by a pre-prep than a nursery.

I agree that they should be actually looking after the children and interacting with them. If the children are literally being left to their own devices to the point where the staff don't know what they are doing, then that is obviously not good and I can see why you are unhappy. I wouldn't have a problem with children playing rather than having lots of structured activity,although at 4 I would expect to see more structure as this is not far off school age and I would expect them to be properly supervised etc. If it really is just chaos, then I agree you should find an alternative nursery for your DD.

The Curriculum for Excellence, is a new curriculum which is being implemented by the Scottish govt. It is being rolled out in all Scottish schools from this August.
In a nursery, at this stage of the term the EYOs and teachers will keep the structure fairly loose in order to plan for progression. However, this cannot be done until initial observations and assessments are made. Structured areas within a context will be developed taking into account all the childrens needs. Within these structured areas there will be free play, ie. the children will lead the play and the area will develop.
If this is a school nursery in Scotland as I suspect it is, some children will have only been in for a few days as the term started a week ago.

They say they need 20 children to be able to take on one more staff memeber so I don't think the 1:8 can be right, for that nursery anyway.
pre-prep? Never heard of it, thought it sounds more like what I had been thinking she would be doing.
I just think she coudl be pushe more, is ready for it.
But perhaps I am worrying too much.
Perhaps you are right, she will do her learning once she is in school. Though this curriculum for Excellence is all about leanring through play, so even it will prob not be quite what I am expecting
still confused

EYFS = child led learning through play

to an outsider it looks like chaos I agree

What bonkerz said.

Early Years education is very different nowadays to what id was when my youngest went to pre school, and he is only 8. I work in a pre school, and we spend alot of time trying to explain to parents what their children are learning from each activity and resource available.

You need to speak to your childs key worker, ask to see their observations and ask how they plan individually for your child. Ask what she is learning from each activity. Sometimes to the untrained eye an activity that looks completely free play is actually structured in some way, and there will be lots of learning potential. Activities are supposed to be child centred, and children are no longer supposed to come home with things they have made that look almost identical to the next child because the template has been provided for them.

You know like at Christmas where the children make crackers and they are told exactly what they are suppose to do and everyones looks the same? That would be most parents idea of a structured activity, but the childen really learn nothing from it. The problem is that parents like that kind of stuff, it's easier for them to see what their child has been doing and they get to keep something that looks good.

When you speak to the staff, take note of how they respond to you and how they answer your questions. If they sound like they know what they are talking about then they probably do, but if they are dismissive of you, or they cant explain what they are doing and the links to the EYFS, then that would probably be a better thing for you to judge them on.

Pre-prep + first stage of independent school. :)

As I indicated, mine is just a guess.

Sorry, don't know if they use the EYFS in Scotland, but either way, I would imagine the principles are the same.

Yes. They tell me that they are still in their settling in period. I asked how long it might be before they moved on from that, but, of course, they couldn't answer that. Silly question really.
I just thought they might offer them some choices.
They say they have 3 tables, one maths and science, one crafts, one construction. They will talk about them, during registration I think. The children can make their choices from then.
They haven't done that yet.
I need to give it time.

They might turn out to be fine then, it does sound like they are planning things and doing what they are meant to do. Their priority at the start of the term has to be settling the new children in, the they can do observations and planning is supposed to come from that. The new guidelines can be quite hard for practitioners to get their heads round too, especially for the ones that have been in early years education for a long time, simply because the changes are quite huge.

You are right to be concerned though

I think it would be sensible to allow for a settling in period. The children are very young and just embarking on a new term.

If you are serious about teaching the Learning and Teaching Scotland website will keep you up to date on new curriculum developments. Work experience is, of course, very important but you will find that in interviews for the post grad or the degree course you will be asked about the reading/research you have done.

Fingers crossed that your DD settles in well and has a happy experience at nursery. As you say, give it a bit of time and allow the children and staff time to get to know each other.

Yeah curlymama I have a friend who has just qualified as a teacher and she has been trying to explain it to me. I kinda get it and I can even follow the logic behind it. I am totally not one of those mums who wants to see a physical end result, I know you were not implying I was, just wanted to say it I want to see DD coming home and explaining stuff to me IYSWIM
Anyway. I just didn't see any kind of interaction from either of them even down to controlling the 2 (yes only 2) boys in the group who were a little unruly.
It all seemed a little distant to me. That is what worrys me the most.
How can they teach in this way if they cannot get the attention of the group?
They did have a table at the top (maths and science table) on it were a number of wee white squares. None of teh children knew what was happening at this table or if they coudl go near it. Most of them flitted around it. 2 or 3 went to it and picked oe or two up. I did see one leader try to tell them what it was but she was so gentle that it fell o deaf ears and was quickly abandoned.
Does that seem right?
Ok it is early days, but still.
The structured/unstructured play in playgroup was more interactive than that!

It all sounds perfectly normal for a term that is a week old!
Allow the staff to get settled and the children to get to know a new environment a new faces.

Just an update as I have spent another session in the Nursery.

I hear that the primary one teacher despairs cos she gets children who have not learnt how to sit and listen/do as they are told/requested.
They knew how to do all these things in playgroup!?
I know, I have seen it.
Why is that not happening in Nursery? Seems that they are taking a step back, not forwards.
I even looked into home schooling today. Not sure that I actually want to go down that route but equally am not sure that DD needs this kind of learning in Nursery.
Went along to their Parents night and they talked a good talk, but I am still not convinced.
There is one boy who is just playing up, constantly answering back and not doing what is requested of him (ie sitting down for register, tidying up, letting others have their turn on toys etc) and it seems to me that they are despairing of him and their way of dealing with it? Let it slide, he will come round when he is ready.
??
I asked about discipline, was told that they use the naughty corner way of dealing with it.
Certainly they have not done so when I have been in (twice now) or a friend.
Another boy who is rough and doesn't listen too well either, though he is not openly flaunting the rules, has pushed the same boy twice. Once when his mother was there (she just accepted it as an accident) Once when I was there. That time, literally ran into him, knocking him flat to the floor.
BOTH play leaders witnessed it, NEITHER did a thing about it.
I asked the main leader if she had seen it, she sort of smiled sort of shrugged.
I wanted to ask was she going to make him apologise at least, but thought better of it. I had recieved my answer already. Clearly she was not and the moment had passed by then anyway.
God! It is frustrating!
They seem not to be bothering even with good manners!
Snack time and milk and water is offered (poured by the leader. They poured their own in playgroup) not once does she make sure she gets a please or thank you!
I mean, maybe I over do it, both mine had their manners before they had speech (signing) and would receive nothing until I got it.

Maybe I am just fussing too much?
Maybe I should stop going in and picking faults?