To think my local council are absolutely heartless?

[Esmediamond]

I am regular, have name changed.

Have a ds (7) with Austism, he is diagnosed etc.

I usually drive him to school, park outside and drop off and am in and out before 9.00 am when charging for parking starts.

One day last term he had a huge meltdown as I dropped him off, there is no way I could have left him. I had to stay with him to calm him down, no-one else can do it when he is like this. Eventually managed to calm him and left, got out to my car at around 9.20 am to find a parking ticket on the car. Fair enough I thought, I will appeal it. Later that day another parent told me that they had spoken to the Parking Attendant and said the Mother who owns that car is inside with her disabled child, please don't ticket the car, he did anyway.

So I appealed the local council explaining this with a supporting letter from school. The reply comes back today, the answer is no and not only that but instead of the original £60 it is now £120 as the appeal did not reach them within two weeks of the penalty notice.

I am gutted, I am on my own with dc so this is a massive dent in my finances.

How can they sleep at nights I will never know.

All the other parents leave by 9.00 am. School starts at 8.50, which helps with this.

No I wasn't parking in a Residents Bay just on the street in a designated parking space but unfortunately I was unable to leave my self harming, screaming, distraught child to sprint out to the car to put a ticket on it.

I totally agree with those who say that the real issue here is policy of my local council re Blue Badges for those with Autism.

I think I need to contact the NAS about this because a blanket ban does seem as though it is discriminatory.

Highland, yes you have, sorry. I was up and down to the front door and phone. When I started my post your cartwheeling post was the last one - then I ended up x posting with loads more.

The other thing you need to be aware of is this.... the fat person you see in the disabled parking space could be me collecting my Godson from the Gym - he has his rehabilitaion physio in there, the healthy looking skinny person you see almost cartwheeling away from the car could be his Mum going to pick him up - things aren't always what they seem. But yes, sometimes the use of the badges is abused.

Yes I would pay the fine with a discount, with bad grace it has to be said but I would pay it. I just think the whole system is terribly unfair though but hey thats life isn't it.

Thanks for all your pointers renderedspeechless I am going to appeal it, at the end of the day I may still have to pay but at least I will have know that I did all I could.

Believe it or not this is not entirely about me being out of pocket. I can't get a Blue Badge, yet ds's disability costs a lot of extra money. How can allowances not be made for this? I just think it is very wrong.

Oh and it is Hammersmith and Fulham Council.

o dear sprinkle. do you want a third apology?
If you are fat and fit good luck to you. I've said above, twice, that I hadn't thought about this in any depth and now realise there are all manner of reasons for people to have badges which are not immediately relevant. In your case it is the fact that you are a carer for a disabled child that means a blue badge would be useful. The two people I talk about - both friends of mine - have badges because they are so fat. That is the reason. 'Obesity'. I think, as their friend, it would be better for them if driving was made more difficult, not less, thereby making sure they did a bit more exercise into their daily routine, rather than driving everywhere. As you obviously know, or you wouldn't have put so much energy into all your races, it is better for your health to do exercise, rather than not do exercise.

sorry above I have said 'relevant' when I mean 'obvious'
posting in haste!

Esmediamond My son has Autism and gets the higher rate mobility so he automatically qualifies for the blue badge.
He can walk perfectly well but he has no sense of danger and is known to step out in front of cars etc.
I am assuming you have DLA for your son so if you get the middle or higher rate for mobility ask at your local children's services or ask a social worker for help in getting a blue badge.

YANBU as well, it is hard when you don't get all the help you need and they have a bad time. I would keep appealing and get as much supportive evidence as you can to send in.

Esmediamond here is some advice ? do not just rollover and pay the fine yet.

[As an aside can you say why it took over the 2 weeks ? did you write before the 2 weeks (and have you got proof of this such as a certificate of posting), are they saying they did not receive it within the 2 weeks, when are they saying it was received and how long did it take them to reply?]

Do the following first. Go onto the parking fightback forum website forums.pepipoo.com/

Register (no cost) and post your query in the section entitled parking and decriminalised notices. Here forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=b76ae8916d3920f144c5ecb90f5b3728&showforum=30

Within 24 hours there will be one or more experts parking who will come and advise you. They will look at the facts of your situation. Ensure all the paperwork is valid (and if it is deficient you will get off), and tell you how to proceed.

They are a brilliant free site and have helped me on more then one occasion where I have been unfarly towed and I got my money back. It is REALLY REALLY REALLY worth your while posting on there and explaining what has happened, where you parked, etc.
You will need to post up photos of all of the paperwork you have so far ? both sides if there is ANY writing in the back including the original ticket and any other paperwork you got originally, the letter you sent, the reply and anything else. This can be done by pdfig the paperwork onto a hosting site such as www.tinypic.com. There is a frequently asked question section on the site which will explain most thig such as how to post photos forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=2

I urge you to post on there asap to see if they suggest any course of action.

ok, esme. just a couple more things for you:

you can call up and ask about the discount thingy, if you like, but i'd say that you'll fair better if you stck your argument up. iyswim.

at this stage i'd suggest that you email, say that you sent in proof to support what you said. say in your email that the circs were 'unforseen, unavoidable and beyond your control'. please use those words.

can i ask, the letter you received, what does it say re why they not willing to cancel the ticket based on the info you gave?

please also ask what they would have expected you to do in those circs. this may be useful if you need to appeal. council officers often shoot selves in foot when suggeting what the driver is expected to have done.

i also suggest you ask that case reviewed by different officer.

fwiw, even if you do decide to appeal, case will be looked at at least twice more. would hope that some sense would lead to pcn being cancelled before then.

hth

It really does help renderedspeechless, may I ask do you work in this environment???

I will do all you advise. This has become a personal crusade for me now. I almost feel if I don't stand up for this then I am just accepting that ds's disability is insignificant and should not be taken into account for anything that he or struggle with in life with relation to it. When in reality it makes significant hurdles in our lives that we have to overcome every single day.

The letter says

"Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notice.

I have carefully considered what you say and all the available evidence, but I do not agree that we should cancel your liability for this PCN.

The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked ina shared parkoing permit/pay and display bay without clearly displaying either a permit of a pay and display ticket.

Parents dropping their children off at school are not exempt from observing the requirement to pay upon parking their vehicle. The circumstances mentioned for your failure to return to the vehicle before it recieved a PCN are noted but not accepted as justification for your failure to comply with the restriction in the first place.

There are signs in each street which show the parking restrictions. The restrictions are also shown on the pay and display machines.

Drivers have a responsibility to check for parking signs and markings and park in accordance with them. I am therefore satisfied that the PCN was properly given within the law."

Then details of how to pay.

Can I make one point. Unless renderedspeechless is an expert in this area (and she may be) please do not just do the logical and sensible thing here. It just simply does not work with parking issues. You really need to follow the experts advice on the law, regulations etc which will be more likely to get you off on a technicality. They will particularly be able to advise on what to say to a parking adjudicator which will be the next stage of your appeal when the council tell you to bog off as they will very very likely tell you to do whatever you say. Do not expect to be treated morally, fairly etc IT WILL NOT HAPPEN

apologies to renderedspeechless if she works within a parking enforcement environment

ISITMEOR Yes, I'm in London, why do you ask?

This sounds like the point to attack: "The circumstances mentioned for your failure to return to the vehicle before it recieved a PCN are noted but not accepted as justification for your failure to comply with the restriction in the first place."

You need to stress in your further appeal that you DID comply with the restriction: you parked before pay parking was applicable to perform a specific task which was to be completed before pay parking became applicable (drop off at school, school opens at 8.50). Therefore it was not necessary for you to comply with the restriction. However an EMERGENCY meant that your return to your vehicle was delayed. It was such an emergency that you were not able to get someone else to buy a ticket for you.

You also need to complain that you are being accused of failing to comply with the parking restrictions, when actually you did, but circumstances beyond your control meant your return was delayed.

Seriously, write to the Director. He/She will take an interest and raise it with the department.

I thought that too BalloonSlayer. As far as I was able to I DID comply with the restriction, when I parked there was NO restriction in place but due to circumstances outside my control I was unable to comply afterwards. I thought that when I read the letter when it arrived before I burst into tears of fury .

I am sure you are correct StarlightMcKenzie. It is just that I know if esmediamond uses that website she will stand the best chance of getting off. I will be very surprised if any amount of sensible reasoning with the council will have any effect.

I give up as I am being ignored. An emotional response will get you nowhere. Good luck with it though.

You are not being ignored goingbacktowork, you are most likely right but I just find that fact very depressing........

Starlight the comment was n't aimed at you - sorry if you thought it was.

I am saying cut out the emotion and follow the experts - that really is your only chance of getting the fine cancelled.

Believe me I know how annoying it is - I thought I was going to have a heart attack when I got unjustifiably towed away!

ok, i have more than 'lay' interest and knowledge in this area. i take your point gbtw, but 'getting off on a technicality' will help esme in the short term. as mentioned ealier, there are wider issues and implications for the council's current position in this matter.

one key point is that it is the decision of one officer, who works for that coincul. it needs to be established whether the council as a body maintain that position. esme can begin to identify this through asking pertinent and relevant questions. whatever the response will serve as a useful platform for the other special needs issues raised in the future.

esme, the response you received appears to be a blanket response that 'sidesteps' the issue and points your letter raised. balloonslayer is right in what she said. that point is critical to your challenge and the officer does not seem to have grasped that. the reply you received does not acknowledge that you had parked in compliance of the regulations 'in the firt place'. hence asking the questions my last post mentioned. would be useful to include school start time, to support that you would have needed to have parked before restrictions started.

without seeing the actual letter you wrote i couldnt comment on the quality of the response you received, but happy to assist further with your response if you think will help.

councils will, in many cases, cancel where proof of unavoidable hospital appointment delay is seen. this situation should not be judged more harshly. would be unfair to do so. at an appeal council would need to show that their decision is reasonable and fair, among other things.

ps. my own opinion is that to 'get off on a technicality' would serve only as a phyrric victory. if the council only backed down because of a technicality, then technically that wouldnt be a win. councils need to give indidual rensonse to indiv circs and that does not appear to have happened here.

I had a similar experience with a total jobsworth idiot member of the uniformed uninformed.

I took the summer scheme group I ran to the pictures - they had disabilities ranging from SLD to PMLD, several in wheelchairs, several with extremely obvious behaviour issues. We were in a Variety Club Sunshine Bus, too.

The fucking twat enforcement officer watched us unload the kids from the bus, smiled and waved, then 3 minutes after we left, slapped us with a ticket, because the clearly displayed blue badge had a date (written in biro, by the council) that had faded in the sun. So clearly, we were not entitled to park in the disabled bay.

I am still incensed about this complete example of absolute fuckwittery, but do you think we won on appeal? No we absolutely did not. And like the OP, our scheme had to pay the doubled fee.

I am absolutely amazed to hear this. I really would have thought you would win on this as the disc was faded due to biro (not yours).

I suspect it is too late to do anything about this but someone may be able to advise. I really am VERY surprised that you lost this.

As a comparison my parking ticket (pay and display) blew upside down in the wind recently on my dashboard and I got a ticket. However I won on appeal as I did have a ticket (which I showed) though it could not be seen properly - I would have thought this was a good analogy to your tax disc scenario as you did have a disc.

YANBU Traffic wardens in Londen are absolute twunkers (3 swear words in one!!)

Pay up, I think, asap as they might double it again, then appeal as above for a refund. I have had a couple of appeals granted so maybe they're nicer where I live.

Having seen some of the comments above though, am dreading DGS (nearly 2) getting his blue badge in a couple of weeks. To look at him, sitting nicely on mum's hip looking around and smiling at people, you would not see his cerebral palsy and the fact he cant walk at all yet. He still uses a normal buggy and does not look in any way disabled.

Several friends with similar children have been abused and made to explain their LOs disability. Does my DD have to put a large disabled child sticker in her window and advertise to the world DGS CP? He has 6 appointments in 2 days this week and finding parking is a nightmare!

YANBU. As you say, heartless fuckers (ok you didn't say the fuckers bit but I'll just add that on your behalf ).

I don't think they can enforce the doubling to £120 though - if you responded to the original demand within the two week period, they should put the fine on hold pending the final decision. So even if they did eventually decide not to waive the fine, it should still stand at the original £60 if you appealed within two weeks.

Crunchyfrog that is absolutely fucking appalling

(Sorry to anyone offended by the swearing, I'm in that kind of mood tonight.)